Interactive Forum February 2024: Roger Federer Backhand Volley

[doctorhl]

Great thread on the backhand volley and amazed that there is always something new to learn. I kind of long for those days when the game wasn't so dominated by power and we got to routinely witness someone prepare to stick a backhand volley, then change to a drop volley in doubles and sometimes in singles. As for getting to see lob volleys.......?

[jimlosaltos]

Actually he had two backhands; flat and slice. I watched him up close and personal at Wimbledon many years ago. He was practicing on an outside court with Fred Stolle for the veteran's event. I think he was in his fifties then but still athletic and playing well. His backhand was beautiful and wonderful to watch.

His backhand volley was even better in my view and the best ever until Edberg came along.

Awesome. Thanks.

[stotty]

And wasn't Rosewall known for his one-handed slice backhand?
Correct me, and I've hardly seen any of his matches from so long ago, but wasn't the slice backhand his best shot and the one opponents' feared?

Actually he had two backhands; flat and slice. I watched him up close and personal at Wimbledon many years ago. He was practicing on an outside court with Fred Stolle for the veteran's event. I think he was in his fifties then but still athletic and playing well. His backhand was beautiful and wonderful to watch.

His backhand volley was even better in my view and the best ever until Edberg came along.

[jimlosaltos]

You might be right but when I reflect on many of the matches I watched, Roger he never seemed to miss too many backhand volleys. Most of the leaks seemed to come from the forehand volley.

I think the modern backhand volley seems to have slightly higher backswing than those of the golden era.

Here's a rather lovely one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYlsa6tK0SI

That said, Rosewall had a stunning backhand volley, and as we see him knocking up (1:10) his backswing seems very similar to Roger's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzOjv1BeMI

And wasn't Rosewall known for his one-handed slice backhand?
Correct me, and I've hardly seen any of his matches from so long ago, but wasn't the slice backhand his best shot and the one opponents' feared?

[stotty]

There's a YT video out there that actually criticizes the BH volley technique of Federer's and that the take-back is too far and that a better way is to emulate a high-level doubles player such as Rohan Bopanna. I actually think the poster had a valid point and Fed's BH volley is just a compact version of his slice BH.

You might be right but when I reflect on many of the matches I watched, Roger he never seemed to miss too many backhand volleys. Most of the leaks seemed to come from the forehand volley.

I think the modern backhand volley seems to have slightly higher backswing than those of the golden era.

Here's a rather lovely one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYlsa6tK0SI

That said, Rosewall had a stunning backhand volley, and as we see him knocking up (1:10) his backswing seems very similar to Roger's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzOjv1BeMI

[tobinlim]

There's a YT video out there that actually criticizes the BH volley technique of Federer's and that the take-back is too far and that a better way is to emulate a high-level doubles player such as Rohan Bopanna. I actually think the poster had a valid point and Fed's BH volley is just a compact version of his slice BH.

[johnyandell]

JC,
Not sure what you mean by downward swing? As for pocketing go to the HS Archives and scroll down to Ball Racket interactions. You can see exactly what does and doesn't happen with poly strings!

[jimlosaltos]

In the teaching system section, John has 2 very good articles. First serve - spin and placement + Second serve - spin and placement. It gives a lot of great info.

Some links.

Teaching System Section:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/

First serve spin and placement:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/serve_spins_and_placements/

Second serve spin and placement:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/2nd_serve_spin_placement/

Thanks for pointing out, Seano, hadn't noticed the whole suite.

[seano]

In the teaching system section, John has 2 very good articles. First serve - spin and placement + Second serve - spin and placement. It gives a lot of great info.

[jcctennis]

Read a very interesting study that the downward swing we see today is a result of poly string. In short the article explains gut we used to use pockets the ball on contact allowing for a horizontal stroke path. Polyester strings do not pocket and must be snapped by the vertical downward motion to obtain spin and thus control of the ball. Can you confirm or deny this John?

[seano]

The pinky and ring finger are the 2 most powerful fingers on your hand. Minimal movement is required when a ball with pace is hit to you, squeeze with the bottom 2 fingers, right before contact. You can choose to add pace, maintain pace or take pace off the shot.

Sean

[stotty]

I have noticed variances of hand tension with player volleys. I try to squeeze my grip at contact to about an 8 or 9. I was told that some pros squeeze about a 5 with the bottom 3 fingers to give just a minute amount of wrist flexion at contact. Trying this generated a tremendous amount of additional volley power, although it took practice to time the squeeze. Has anybody else experienced this, or is it just a weird idiosnyncracy on my part?

I use a relaxed grip when volleying mostly. Relaxation is the key to better timing and easy power in my view. Adopting a 'muscular' grip tends to tighten the arm and reduce power.

[stotty]

To my eye there are a couple of things at work here, which may or may not be spill over from an attempt to deal w/heavier top than was common years (ages?) ago. First, most modern players are using a stronger (i.e., more extreme) backhand grip (especially for topspin), and imo it encourages an “elbow pulling away” motion in hitting slice that was not part of the classic sliced backhand. It’s all but impossible to make the racquet face go “through” 8 balls in a row in the follow through on a sliced bh with that grip. Similarly, we see many more backhand volleys hit with that elbow pulling across the body rather than outwards behind the racquet. In this video of Federer his elbow is not locked straight at the hitting point, as we were taught (correctly, imo, for the grip) when earning to use a continental for volleying. Also, his racquet is not held “upwards” by his wrist in the 90? that went with that grip, which is also harder if not impossible to do with today’s common backhand grip that’s a strong eastern or even more extreme. The consequence of this is that slice today is more floating, less driven. While I believe the driven slice could be used to counter the heavier topspin, I think it requires tremendous exactitude in the hit, to an unacceptable degree, or else it flies up as @jimlosaltos noted above.

When it comes to slice I find many players adopt a relatively mild grip, switching from a strong eastern in the case of one-handed players. I don't think players are using strong backhand grips to slice with as this generally inhibits a correct follow through.

[stotty]

During what I call "The Tony Roche Period", when Federer made a conscious return to a more net-centric game, Fed said something akin to "You have to commit to volleying throughout your games to be good at it." I presume as distinguished from waiting until one has a golden opportunity, then hitting the first volley in the set on a big point.

I think that's very true. To be a truly great volleyer a player has to commit to it as a game-style; you cannot become a great volleyer doing it part-time...so to speak. Perhaps the greatest thing about Roger is he could have become any player he wanted to be. He is also testament that no player can become 'everything' they want to be.

[tennisskip1515]

To my eye there are a couple of things at work here, which may or may not be spill over from an attempt to deal w/heavier top than was common years (ages?) ago. First, most modern players are using a stronger (i.e., more extreme) backhand grip (especially for topspin), and imo it encourages an “elbow pulling away” motion in hitting slice that was not part of the classic sliced backhand. It’s all but impossible to make the racquet face go “through” 8 balls in a row in the follow through on a sliced bh with that grip. Similarly, we see many more backhand volleys hit with that elbow pulling across the body rather than outwards behind the racquet. In this video of Federer his elbow is not locked straight at the hitting point, as we were taught (correctly, imo, for the grip) when earning to use a continental for volleying. Also, his racquet is not held “upwards” by his wrist in the 90? that went with that grip, which is also harder if not impossible to do with today’s common backhand grip that’s a strong eastern or even more extreme. The consequence of this is that slice today is more floating, less driven. While I believe the driven slice could be used to counter the heavier topspin, I think it requires tremendous exactitude in the hit, to an unacceptable degree, or else it flies up as @jimlosaltos noted above.