Thoughts about Tennis Tradition...

[don_budge]

Realistically one needs to approach this game like you are a coal miner - show up, do your job and be smart/wise/SAFE/structured at it so you become DURABLE, efficient/street wise/a man of the land and put in more proper reps than the other guys.

Do you think the game the way this guy thinks it - if not, you won't be a player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln72ezTmm6Y - Moe Norman ...

So, yes - success is all in an athletes hands and if they don't make it then it is all their fault and no one else's ...

I like Moe here ...

"I make the ball talk" ...

"Get lost guys - I play now ... this is my own little playground" ...

Talent can take you a long way - I agree - but, their gets a point when you get good at 13/19 - and, now its a matter of putting in more productive work so you stay at the top. Lots of talented players play 100 games in the ATP - or any pro sports - but, the trick is to get to 800 games and not many can do that because that takes some serious progressions over a long period of time.

As coal miner...as a golfer. You dig it out of the ground. Show up on time. Do your job. Eat your lunch out of a lunch bucket. It's blue collar baby! Moe Norman. I find my heroes in some unlikely places. Moe used to sleep in the bunkers at the tournament sites.

I was out doing my three and a half hour practice session the other day. Nobody else around. I said it out loud in a most confirming voice...authoritative like. "This is my playground!". It is. I have taken possession of the practice facility at the Knistad Country Club in rural Sweden. I have a thinly structured loose knit plan. But it is all inclusive in the sense it will take me where I am going. It's long term too. I am in it for the long haul. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. My dear old tennis coach Sherman Collins used to say. Finding the weakness in your own repertoire. Working it. Honing it. Owning it.

I am the only one out there practicing like I do. This suits me just fine. I know that my competition is somewhere else...doing something else. Meanwhile I work. I'm working on the mental game. Trying to improve myself. To be a better golfer...to be a better person. I telephone my dear old Father a lot and give him updates on my progress. He gets a kick out having a son who is having so much fun. Is it so much fun? Can you work so hard at something and still call it fun? It's fun when you see results. It isn't fun if you are spinning your wheels. It has to be "purposeful". Every moment must be geared for the next moment. Everything hinges upon it.

I watched this video hockeyscout. Thanks for posting it. I have been aware of Moe Norman for many years. A great Canadian. A very special man. Awkward around people but if you put a golf club in his hand he starts to sound like Amadeus Mozart. His voice goes sing song. His sentences becomes lyrics. An idiot savant poet. A person who is extremely unworldly but displays natural wisdom, insight and clarity.

[hockeyscout]

Your starting to sound like Moe Norman ... all the good ones are Moe Norman’s mentally anyways.

[don_budge]

The Tennis Equivalents...Reflection Time

Walking, as opposed to using golf cart gives more time for reflection.( tennis equivalent to the short walking reflection time between points).

Reflection time:
1.Any comments on how your thought process has evolved between golf shots?( there might be tennis parallels).
2. Is your mind becoming quicker in letting go of a previous previous poor shot performance during reflection time? (a death trap for many junior tennis players).
3.Is your reflection time taken up mostly with swing mechanics or environmental considerations like wind, topography, upcoming ball lie, club selection, etc.? I would guess that your confidence in swing transition has you thinking a little less of swing mechanics during reflection time and saving that type of thinking for range practice.(pro tennis players most likely have little swing mechanics thoughts between points and focus on strategy).

Setup thinking should be different from reflection time.
1. How has your thought process evolved during setup? (Shorter or longer time spent, different cues, shot shaping images, etc.). Most club level players who VARY the time or content in their SET UP routine struggle.( ( I suppose that is true for tennis serve setup also).

Some would say that self examination on these questions is counterproductive for golf or tennis improvement as the quality of reflection time and setup will automatically improve with practice.(not to me).

Profound thanks doctorhl. Truly the most interesting people on earth are those that can maintain an intelligent conversation on both tennis and golf. You trying to get into my head and doing a damn good job at it. Both of these games/sports are so mental. The game within the game. One of the most interesting things going on in my head is where I am with the handicap. I think you mentioned in a post how difficult it is to drop from 5 compared to drop from 10. I will tell you that much of it is mental. Number one...intellectually I was able to discern what I needed to do in practice to get there. Number two...I had the intestinal fortitude to put in the work. Number three...I was willing to accept failure in the present to advance to the future. Not necessarily in that order.

Yours is an interesting post. It's fascinating. It actually sent me into a bit of spiral trying to figure out how to express my answers to your questions and to make it meaningful to tennis enthusiasts which is my point in my revelations about my golf. The two games are remarkably as similar and dissimilar as they can possibly be. Truly two sides of the same coin. God's gift to humanity in terms of recreation representing the finite (tennis) and the infinite (golf). So what the hell do you do with your noodle in between points...in between shots. I will tell you in a word or two...just breath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTb9GNIxpMk

The watershed moment for me came after reading a book by Dr. Bob Rotella called "Golf is Not a Game of Perfect". Basically he speaks to the very things you ask and his answer is in between shots...just breath. Don't over analyse. Don't engage in mental gymnastics. Just concentrate on breathing and thinking about things like trust. Belief. Knowing in your heart what you know. It depends upon the person of course. But everyone has access to this kind of thought pattern. The trick is to stumble upon it. But you must stumble "purposefully" as hockeyscout would say. I stumbled purposefully.

The evolution of my thought process went from chaos to organization. I ask the prospective employee "what is the key to any organization?". The answer? Organization is the key. So before when I was playing poorly I was disorganized when I got over the ball. I wasn't sure in heary or my brain just what it was I wanted to do or even begin to understand how to do it. So I worked out the how to a bit and then I started to imploy the method of Dr. Bob Rotella. Before I was fretting about what I had just done or what I was about to do. I fretted about my swing. I fretted about my score. I fretted about anything I possibly could get my grey matter on. Not condusive to good performance.

So to begin with I started to breath. You must begin with breathing and end with breathing. Through thick and thin. So at the first tee I start to concentrate on my breathing. Staying calm and in the moment. The trick is go all the way around the course doing only that. I used to anticipate too much. If I was even par after four holes I would start to think about getting to nine even. Now if I am even after four my only thoughts are the anticipation of the next shot. The last shot is in the rearview. Good or bad...it makes no difference. I only have eyes for the next...my mind is only focused on the next. All of my concentration is on the next. What happened is done...what happens next is what counts. What is going to happen? Nobody knows.

Reflection time in the walk to the ball is getting into the spirit of the game. Trying to attain a zen like state of calm. Free of worry. Free of expectations. Sure all of those things like environment, lie, conditions...all are within your powers of observation. These are the things that you consciously try to calmly think through in order to make that ultimate decision. Swing thoughts? More or less the kiss of death. Focus too much on that one thing and then you forget all the other things. Better to feel good. Be positive and relaxed. Be confident. Trust yourself. Trust your swing. Obviously there is much to this. To sort out "swing thoughts" is best done on the practice tee and even so the goal is to be able to practice as you play...without the burden of swing thoughts. Better to trust.

Amazingly I shot back to back rounds of even par golf. I played around 120 some holes of golf at 7 over par. A remarkable run. But more remarkable is that it all seemed so doable. Always feeling there is room for improvement yet fully apprecaiting the accomplishment. Thanking God above all else...for my health. For the opportunity. For all of the blessing of this life. I would wish that for everyone...by the way. It's a mission.

Ahhhh...the setup. "Miss 'em quick"...one of my favorite golf quotes by none other than Lee Trevino. A Mexican golfer. I get behind the ball and pick out my target. A very small target. Very specific. A leaf on a tree in the background. I might take some sort of practice motion...a practice swing of sorts. Not always an entire swing. Just to get comfortable with initiating the swing...initiating the downswing. I am rehearsing a feeling. Trying to to get overly specific about any swing thought. The to the ball with as little motion and variation as possible. Look at the target. Find a target in line a meter or two in front of me in line with my distant target. Put my club behind the ball lined up to the short target. I'm going to align myself to my clubface. I swing my left foot into position. Place the right foot into position. Adjust the front foot and then settle into my position and then swing. With trust and belief. Then...go find it. If it was good...it's good. If it's bad I am trying to find a way to make par. No worries. No negativity. Just play the game. It doesn't help to get down on yourself. But it's human nature. It's what we work on to get better. To improve. To become better human beings. We reflect. What a beautiful way of putting it. Thanks...doctorhl.

[don_budge]

By the way...another profound read in golf is "Golf in the Kingdom" by Michael Murphy. I must read about the philosophy and metaphorical nature of the game. Much like tennis...golf teaches us. The lessons are profound. It seems to make it all worth while.

[doctorhl]

Walking, as opposed to using golf cart gives more time for reflection.( tennis equivalent to the short walking reflection time between points).

Reflection time:
1.Any comments on how your thought process has evolved between golf shots?( there might be tennis parallels).
2. Is your mind becoming quicker in letting go of a previous previous poor shot performance during reflection time? (a death trap for many junior tennis players).
3.Is your reflection time taken up mostly with swing mechanics or environmental considerations like wind, topography, upcoming ball lie, club selection, etc.? I would guess that your confidence in swing transition has you thinking a little less of swing mechanics during reflection time and saving that type of thinking for range practice.(pro tennis players most likely have little swing mechanics thoughts between points and focus on strategy).

Setup thinking should be different from reflection time.
1. How has your thought process evolved during setup? (Shorter or longer time spent, different cues, shot shaping images, etc.). Most club level players who VARY the time or content in their SET UP routine struggle.( ( I suppose that is true for tennis serve setup also).

Some would say that self examination on these questions is counterproductive for golf or tennis improvement as the quality of reflection time and setup will automatically improve with practice.(not to me).

[don_budge]

Now that you have understanding and confidence in swing mechanics:

1. Improve golf setup(equal to footwork prep for tennis groundstroke contact).
2. Shape your drives with a fade or draw and know when to use them (equal to shaping tennis flat, slice or topspin groundstrokes and knowing when to use them).
3.Shaping height and spin in pitches and chips which involves ball checking or releasing after bounce.(equivalent to flat, topspin or kicker bounce on serves).
4.Mind shaping putting paths affected by green slope and grain (equal to mind shaping tennis groundstroke flights affected by environmental factors of wind and humidity).

80 to 75 takes “x” time to achieve. 75 to 70 takes “3x” time to achieve. Mental to motor ratio for improvement changes as score drops.

Thanks for the comment doctorhl. I'm moving over here so that I am not intruding on other threads. Although "The 4 Pillars of the Type 3 ATP Forehand" gave me some excellent food for thought in trying to think my way through my transition from tennis to golf...from being left-handed to right-handed.

Yesterday and today were watershed moments. I shot even par on both days. I thought that I was one under yesterday but I recounted my score and realised that I had conveniently forgotten a bogey during the round. I've read your comment a number of times.

1. The golf setup is the tennis equivalent of "get into position". Get into position to make the backswing and the forward hit. It's an interesting comparison seeing as the tennis ball is moving and the golf ball is just laying there. Ask any golfer how he felt after he played a good round and inevitably they will tell you that they felt comfortable over the ball. The last two days I have felt more comfortable over the ball than at any time of my comeback to golf.

2. Shaping the ball. I am beginning to see a draw in my mind when I need to play one. Otherwise I have been going with my stock delivery which varies from variations of straight. But as I find that elusive position in my backswing that I have been searching for new possibilities are developing.

3. Trying to keep the ball as close to the earth on all pitches and chips and letting the ball run up to the hole. My short game has been pretty sharp with the exception of my bunker play....which has improved.

4. The putter is on fire. Sunday I made three birdies in a row and then made a five meter put for par on #17 and followed this with another five meter for bogey on #18 (I drove the ball in the woods). I'm seeing the line.

It is a game of confidence. I worked like the devil now for some months. Recently I have the opportunity of playing with a nearly scratch golfer who is an excellent example to watch. In my previous life as a golfer I always said that playing with a good golfer was the best way to learn. You pick stuff up. It's almost like osmosis. But my confidence has really soared as of late. My handicap is at 1.6 now. When I see a putt I see a makable putt. I can hardly believe that I am where I am at. To tell the truth when I was at handicap 5 I told myself that I had made good progress for a season. Suddenly each round something happens that gives me more confidence. Several times today I drove the ball significantly further than I have on certain holes than I had all season. There is a reason for this. Now I have a better idea where I want to be in my backswing and I am getting a better feel as to how to transition going forwards. I get up each day at 5.30 to be on the first tee by 7:15. Our rounds are taking just over three hours...walking. The weather has been nothing short of spectacular. I'm praying for an unusually beautiful autumn here in Sweden. Don't Stop Me Now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzGwKwLmgM

[gzhpcu]

Thanks for your support don_budge and Kyle. All the best for 2020...

Sheesh, to think when I first read Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, I thought that was a long time ahead... Not so speak of Orwell's 1984...

[don_budge]

I'm nearly there...already scanning tennispoint and tennisnuts for best price. I'm going to play the Scottish Open Seniors ITF at the end of Jan with current RF85s and highly likely I'll change after that. Hitting the gym again today... Looking forward to 2020, let's see what we can do!

Have a GREAT year glacierguy! Really appreciate the positive feedback last year. We are going forwards into 2020. Let's do it with 20/20 vision. Awareness. Let's do the gym and do it intelligently. Let's know are limits and expand upon them when realistically possible. Most of all...let's hold the line. We are getting older but we don't have to take it lying down.

Expand your limits wherever possible. glacierguy...I hope you get "there" and the sooner the better. Trust me...get a load of this thread. "Thoughts about Tennis Tradition"! The whole concept of this thread is about the concept of tradition and tradition lost. For instance...we all know that wood racquets are way in the rear view. In fact they are barely remembered by anyone who was not cognisant in 1984. Like a lot of things in life 1984 is the line of demarcation. What a coincidence...or was it? George Orwell's 1984.

I was thirty years old in 1984. I was cognisant but I am only now realising what happened then. Since for that matter. But one thing is for certain...if you are going to play tennis and play to win you have to be intelligent about the equipment and as you say...you are almost there. On the other hand I admire and respect anybody who would buck the line of thinking called conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom would certainly tell you that playing the Scottish Open Seniors with a dinosaur racquet is not giving yourself the best chance in any given situation where your opponent has you out gunned.

Somehow I find myself having great respect for you though. Like Arthur and Excalibur. Like Borg and his Donnay. Like Federer and his merger 90 square. A guy who handicaps himself on purpose and then marches into battle. That takes balls and it proves a point somehow to that individual. I know. Trust me. Godspeed Man! Have a GREAT 2020!!!

[don_budge]

2020. Happy New Year everyone.
My apologies for going AWOL from the forum for much of 2019. It was an incredible year for many reasons so my time was limited. As I write this post, the 2nd day of January, we have only 365 days left of this year. Let's make the most of it. What are we waiting for? It's going to be a great year.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Have a GREAT Year Kyle. It's great to hear from you. Busy? No doubt. Give me a full report. Write me an email. I'd like to hear it. Thanks...klacr!

[don_budge]

There has been some feuding. There has been a lot of good lively conversation. All of it revolving around a subject that all will agree that they passionately love. Tennis.

The forum would not be the same without you don_budge. The best and most consistent poster. When you take a break, we immediately notice that the forum loses its dynamism. We are now in 2020. Keep rocking with your entertaining posts and great insights. All the best. Sorry again that I ruffled your feathers time back over McEnroe, but that is all water under the bridge and the reconcilation bonded us.

Nice, made my day.

Ha! I do seem to remember some John McEnroe riff. I cannot remember the details. For all I know I had it coming to me. But the truly great thing about this forum is it is mostly men participating. Guys know how to get it done. We might have our dust ups but in the end we generally know how to put things into perspective. There have been some pretty good feuds on the forum. Always amusing to watch. Nobody ever came to blows...due to geographic constraints for one thing. But I appreciate guys who don't back down or roll over too easily. Can't recall that I couldn't say you were a gentleman about it though. One of those things I guess. One thing I noticed though...anytime it has happened we both walk away with respect for one another. Except for one case.

Yeah...it's one of those things Phil. All I know is that when you were going through your heart issues that I thought about you all the time. After your surgery and you hadn't posted for several days I thought that it took too long so I contacted your buddy...klacr. AKA Kyle. And he set the record straight. He had been in touch. I'd say we reconciled alright. Super happy about your comeback too! I think it is inspirational and your diligence in the upkeep of your body has been a good lesson for me. I'm following suit.

So yeah...it is 2020. I have been saying have a GREAT year instead of the usual "Happy New Year". I mean it too. Just give it the best shot every day and see what the results are. We are sort of a neighbourhood here. Some of it almost feels a bit like family. The old familiar faces. I'm even facebook friends with stroke who is a great guy even in his real life. So let's rock and roll. Like we used too when we were young. What the hell...it isn't over yet. There is a lot to be happy for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqi_...hrYiv6S9p3QauQ

We're just telling stories. Taking pictures. Have a GREAT 2020!

[10splayer]

Super glad to be the recipient of this. 10splayer...I gave this one some airtime to soak it for all it is worth. But it doesn't even begin to. I know I speak for a number of us in saying that we miss your remarks immensely. Speaking for myself...right back at you. All of it and then some. Particularly the part of blessing to you and yours. Rest assured about the keeping on. A beer? Me too. Dug in a foxhole? A round of golf? A doubles partner? You would definitely be at the top of my list. Mutual respect my Friend!

Nice, made my day.

[klacr]

2020. Happy New Year everyone.
My apologies for going AWOL from the forum for much of 2019. It was an incredible year for many reasons so my time was limited. As I write this post, the 2nd day of January, we have only 365 days left of this year. Let's make the most of it. What are we waiting for? It's going to be a great year.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

The forum would not be the same without you don_budge. The best and most consistent poster. When you take a break, we immediately notice that the forum loses its dynamism. We are now in 2020. Keep rocking with your entertaining posts and great insights. All the best. Sorry again that I ruffled your feathers time back over McEnroe, but that is all water under the bridge and the reconcilation bonded us.

[don_budge]

I've said it many times, there are not many I'd rather have a beer with. (or in my case a nice rye whiskey) You've been an incredible poster, full of insight, and a pleasure to know. Blessings to you and yours this new year. Keep on keeping on.

Super glad to be the recipient of this. 10splayer...I gave this one some airtime to soak it for all it is worth. But it doesn't even begin to. I know I speak for a number of us in saying that we miss your remarks immensely. Speaking for myself...right back at you. All of it and then some. Particularly the part of blessing to you and yours. Rest assured about the keeping on. A beer? Me too. Dug in a foxhole? A round of golf? A doubles partner? You would definitely be at the top of my list. Mutual respect my Friend!

[10splayer]

I've said it many times, there are not many I'd rather have a beer with. (or in my case a nice rye whiskey) You've been an incredible poster, full of insight, and a pleasure to know. Blessings to you and yours this new year. Keep on keeping on.