The Return of Serve and Volley: Can It Happen?

[stotty]

Anderson versus Edberg

Did u watch Kevin Anderson yesterday?
His serve and volley looked pretty efficient
We do NOT have live in past,do NOT we?
See as well

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2182&page=3

post #24

Not even close to Edberg. Go to 35 seconds and watch Stefan in slow motion. Incredible how the serve propels him to the Edberg in time to shut down angles. It's not a question of living in the past, more a question of the present not being a match for the past...not in the serve and volley department that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ll_RTlYizU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjCoyKvyhY0

[julian1]

Did u watch Kevin Anderson yesterday?

Llodra has had some success at serve and volleying and he is not even that good at it...well compared to players of the past he isn't. It's definitely still a viable way to play.

Looking at a number of serves at the tournament in Paris this week, don_budge could well have a good point. A lot of the service motions don't lend themselves well to moving up to the net. Michael Stich had a lovely flowing motion that allowed him to move quickly up behind it. Edberg had a far less beautiful serve but boy did it allow him a quick journey to the net ....has anyone got to the net quicker?...only Frank Sedgman so I'm told.

It's hard to serve and volley without the right type of service action.

Did u watch Kevin Anderson yesterday?
His serve and volley looked pretty efficient
We do NOT have live in past,do NOT we?
See as well

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2182&page=3

post #24

[stotty]

Service motion

Llodra has had some success at serve and volleying and he is not even that good at it...well compared to players of the past he isn't. It's definitely still a viable way to play.

Looking at a number of serves at the tournament in Paris this week, don_budge could well have a good point. A lot of the service motions don't lend themselves well to moving up to the net. Michael Stich had a lovely flowing motion that allowed him to move quickly up behind it. Edberg had a far less beautiful serve but boy did it allow him a quick journey to the net ....has anyone got to the net quicker?...only Frank Sedgman so I'm told.

It's hard to serve and volley without the right type of service action.

[jbill]

Serve-volley takes down Delpo

Well guys and gals, Michael Llodra has just taken out Juan Martin Del Potro, 6-4, 6-3, at the indoor Masters tournament in Paris. Very impressive. Del potro is known to be one of the better indoor players, too. Delpo really got tired of seeing Llodra in his face so consistently.

So I think we have a model for how serve-volley can be done at the top level. This court they played on wasn't particularly fast either according to the announcers. I understand that there are various reasons why players of the present era don't play that style of game, but at least we know it can work. Llodra proved that today.

[jbill]

Fun watching

Speaking of serve and volley, this week in Paris, Michael Llodra has done quite well for himself. I love watching him. He was supposed to play Radek Stepanek another serve-volley guy, but Stepanek pulled out for some reason. That would have been a very interesting match. Llodra is in the third round now playing Del Potro this morning.

I had the chance to watch Mischa Zverev at the challenger in Sacramento in October of this year. I watched him play three matches in which he served and volleyed the whole way through. He got to the final and lost to Blake. I believe Zverev got as high as #47 in the world about three years ago.

Yeah, there aren't many serve-volley guys at the top level, but they sure are fun to watch.

[julian1]

Variety for serve and volley

Please click

http://no-cache.uspta.com/trc/OC69_05_Hank_Pfister_Serve_placement.mp4

IPhone/iPad users: Go to the iTunes app store and download the free "Tennis Tips" app that provides access to the tip of the week and previous weeks' tips. (iPhone/iPad)
It should work for the newest mini iPad as well.
I could NOT get it working for my Blackberry.
It should work for majority of PC's and Mac's.

[julian1]

Serve and volley in US

Let's do that...

It's not easy becoming a serve and volley player. We all start our playing lives at the back of the court and without encouragement it's where we'll often stay. We get insecure when we suddenly find ourselves at the net because our starting point for playing tennis for a long time was the baseline...so you have to overcome that.

Even going back years, there were more baseliners than net players because players even then weren't forward thinking enough to see the benefits. It's so much easier an comforting to stay with what you are familiar with, what you know best.

I had very little coaching when I was young but what I had was quality. I come from the same club as John Lloyd, TV commentator and former British number one. John was coached by his father and mother who were tennis fanatics. Dennis, John's father, would sometimes coach other kids in the club of which I was one. Dennis was convinced serve and volley was they way to play because he felt pressurising opponents to make passing shots made their risk factor higher than yours, especially towards the end of a set on the big points. It's one thing pulling off a tough passing shot at 2-2 and quite another at 4-5, 30-40.

Being it was Dennis telling us this we followed his words to the letter. He told us to sacrifice a season or two to learn the art of serve and volley. He told us it would take time...and time and time again we would get passed until we learned to how move well at the net, how read the game, how to close down the angles. He was right. We all lost for ages...but persevered...and eventually became really good serve and volley players.

Dennis was right, you have to sacrifice one game to learn another. Bill Tilden said exactly the same think 70 years ago.

The problem these days is no one is prepared to lose for a given time while they learn the art of volleying and approaching the net. Parents of juniors want to see their child's rating increase....kids want to see it increase too. A lot of coaches would get fired if they told their young charges to storm the net...

Out of time...off to work....that's enough to be going on with....fascinating thread...wrote this thread in one sitting with no proofreading...hope it's legible...couldn't resist to write before going to work after seeing don_budge's post today.

Some serve and volley for doubles is taught/coached in clubs in US
(around 4.0 NTRP or higher).
The same for colleges
The book "Doubles tennis tactics" by Louis Cayer can be used

[kerrymitchell]

nostalgia

Hi Everyone,
I wanted to clarify one thing about why I wrote the article. It had nothing to do with nostalgia for a long dead style of game. It was more about the mind of a champion and what he/she brings to the game. I appreciate all great champions of our great game. I enjoy watching this game whether it is a battle of baseliners or a battle of serve-volleyers. We all know how difficult this game can be to do well. As a player and coach I continue to marvel at how good a great champion is whether he does it at the baseline or at the net. Will a new champion 5 years from now change the game again pushing the limits of athleticism to an even higher level? Only time will tell.
Good luck
Kerry Mitchell.

[GeoffWilliams]

The reason why serve/volley is so difficult is two fold. If your serve does not have some mystery to it, a good returner will lock down on it and begin to hit winners and shots at your ankles, and force you to over close the net.

The other reason has to do with the variety of shots you have to learn to defend against, and hit, both with half the time you have at the baseline.

You have to learn to follow the ball on its angle, and watch not your opponent, but his frame to glean the pass.

You have to learn to half volley, to low volley, to high volley, all low and away from you, and once you hit your shot, make sure it's low and away from your opponent.

You have to learn touch drops off same look power drives.

You have to learn to transition mostly dtl, not cc, due to the fact the opp. has 15% less distance to pass dtl, and you have 15% more land to cover getting to a dtl pass. So the cc transition or first volley, had better be 30% more effective, than a dtl shot. Look at Roddick, and all those pathetic cc approaches he made.

You have to learn over heads, both back pedaling, let them bounce, and back hand oh.

You have to learn to back up, on shots at your ankles, and overcome your forward momentum, and take them off bounce, harder than it looks.

I started to learn to volley when I was about 30, when a local player said, "He's big, he's strong, and he doesn't come in at all! Why not hit a strong serve and come in?" : Peter Sharkey

Later on I played him on a hot day, about 104 degrees. I won 6-4, 6-4, and he dropped dead that night of a heart attack! Sometimes, tennis kills us. Lots of guys I knew on the court are dead now, drowning, heart, diabetes, etc. The cost of aging is watching things you love die.

[stotty]

The next best thing. Talk about it. Discuss it. Honestly and openly.

Let's do that...

It's not easy becoming a serve and volley player. We all start our playing lives at the back of the court and without encouragement it's where we'll often stay. We get insecure when we suddenly find ourselves at the net because our starting point for playing tennis for a long time was the baseline...so you have to overcome that.

Even going back years, there were more baseliners than net players because players even then weren't forward thinking enough to see the benefits. It's so much easier an comforting to stay with what you are familiar with, what you know best.

I had very little coaching when I was young but what I had was quality. I come from the same club as John Lloyd, TV commentator and former British number one. John was coached by his father and mother who were tennis fanatics. Dennis, John's father, would sometimes coach other kids in the club of which I was one. Dennis was convinced serve and volley was they way to play because he felt pressurising opponents to make passing shots made their risk factor higher than yours, especially towards the end of a set on the big points. It's one thing pulling off a tough passing shot at 2-2 and quite another at 4-5, 30-40.

Being it was Dennis telling us this we followed his words to the letter. He told us to sacrifice a season or two to learn the art of serve and volley. He told us it would take time...and time and time again we would get passed until we learned to how move well at the net, how read the game, how to close down the angles. He was right. We all lost for ages...but persevered...and eventually became really good serve and volley players.

Dennis was right, you have to sacrifice one game to learn another. Bill Tilden said exactly the same think 70 years ago.

The problem these days is no one is prepared to lose for a given time while they learn the art of volleying and approaching the net. Parents of juniors want to see their child's rating increase....kids want to see it increase too. A lot of coaches would get fired if they told their young charges to storm the net...

Out of time...off to work....that's enough to be going on with....fascinating thread...wrote this thread in one sitting with no proofreading...hope it's legible...couldn't resist to write before going to work after seeing don_budge's post today.

[don_budge]

Can It Happen?...Will monkeys fly out of your butt in the morning?-Madonna

Sadly, without the fast hard courts or quick grass courts, the serve and volley is going to suffer. Note that even with many professional doubles teams that the serve and volley is being left out...ironically, I am seeing a rise in the serve and volley game with the club and recreational player who, after spending many years trying to emulate the top player's ground stroke games, now realize that a serve and volley game is very productive. Since the club level or recreational player makes up about 99% of our tennis population, you could say statistically, that the serve and volley game is making a tremendous comeback...

I disagree. There are plenty of big servers out there. I go to Wimbledon every year and watch big servers stay back when they could have ventured in behind their serve and had a ball five feet above the net to stick away. It works both ways. Volleys and serves have become more powerful not just ground shots - so everything gets equalled out. No, it's the art of approaching and volleying that has been lost...nothing else.

We need a longer grass court season, that would help. The thing is most of the tour coaches are in their 30's and 40's so too young to have watched volleying done properly, at it's best. So how can they know how to coach it.

Serves are more powerful, not volleys. Watch old school volleying and you will see that their volleys were their fastest shots.

Good question(s)...and one that I have refrained from participating in so far. Call it a strategic pause. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Any sort of serious return will take years...it is not like retooling a factory for next years model. It took almost forty years to arrive the game at its present state.

The best that could happen? Revolution. Clear and simple. They stole the game back in the mid 1970's. Howard Head, the USTA and the equipment manufacturers. Throw in a high profile coach. The solution...take it back. How? I am not that smart. che_guevera I am not...I am only don_budge.

The next best thing. Talk about it. Discuss it. Honestly and openly. This website has begun to do just that. I applaud you for the effort to educate the masses. The articles of the past couple of months speak of change and wistful thinking. Volleys, approaches, opportunities...and now serve and volleying. All lost integral parts of the game and this is very sad. It was worth fighting for way back then but unfortunately everyone was too high on their instant ability to improve their tennis games with the purchase of a new tennis racquet.

If one would aspire to being in the Tennis Hall of Fame these days it may behooves one to create a dramatic change for the better. Recruit some powerful allies that want to see the right thing done. Then again if one has high aspirations you have to be careful not to rub the people in charge the wrong way. Another reason it is not going to happen.

Rod...wonderful article. You scratch the surface...it is what is needed to be done. People are still drunk on topspin forehands and two hand backhands. There is and was much more to the game. It has been lost.

Get it back? Not in the near future. Surface, surface and surface like the real estate mantra location, location and location bodes ill for serve and volley. Stotty hits the nail on the head too. Who is going to teach it? Besides the volleys and approaches, who will teach the service motion? Don't forget the tactics which are a book in itself. No small wonder most players wouldn't even think of following their serve to the net. The motions are not conducive to that. Hit like hell and retreat behind the baseline. Strong grips don't encourage full court play either...the closer you get to the net, the weaker the grip. Coaches these days have bought into the paradigm hook, line and sinker. How could they not? They love tennis too...it is just that what they fell for was a false god. Who can blame them? It's a sign of the times.

It's a long story...and a sad one. Most passionate love stories are. Nobody lives happily ever after anymore. No one here gets out alive. They really made a mess of it...tennis that is. If you are happy with it you are probably too young to know any better.

Reduce the size of the racquet head to 75 square inches. Notice how the size keeps getting smaller with me...I know it isn't going to happen. I have been told so many times on this forum. Don't you think that I don't understand that? I know the score. Can it happen? Highly unlikely. Consider human nature...make that impossible. The impetus is too massive going in the other direction. The virtual reality has created it's own morality...and it too is virtual in nature. Image is everything! It's viral baby!

[GeoffWilliams]

If that were true, then there would be more serve/volley winners. Stepanek? Lopez? Does anyone see Isner becoming a serve/volleyer? Maybe the next gen ser/vol guy will be one who uses swing volleys on low balls, and a uni grip full western at the net. This last gen of players killed off anyone coming in, for a lot of reasons. Serves are more powerful, not volleys. Watch old school volleying and you will see that their volleys were their fastest shots.

[stotty]

I disagree

I disagree. There are plenty of big servers out there. I go to Wimbledon every year and watch big servers stay back when they could have ventured in behind their serve and had a ball five feet above the net to stick away. It works both ways. Volleys and serves have become more powerful not just ground shots - so everything gets equalled out. No, it's the art of approaching and volleying that has been lost...nothing else.

We need a longer grass court season, that would help. The thing is most of the tour coaches are in their 30's and 40's so too young to have watched volleying done properly, at it's best. So how can they know how to coach it.

[GeoffWilliams]

There was a lot of pressure to slow down courts when edber/becker/mcenroe were dominating the game. Sponsors were upset that not enough people were watching. Points did not last long. Bam, bam thank you ma'am did not sit well with them. Now, that all the courts are slow, and the ball is also slowed down, it will not turn around.. Equipment also advanced, bigger frames, spin string, snap back was figured out. Technique evolved to kill serve and volley. Even if they speed up the courts and balls, the fact remains, that the tech. and equip. will still dominate from the baseline. If I were Isner, I'd be in on every serve. like Sampras. All those popped up returns, sliced, blocked, and he just sits back there stupidly.

The average frame size now is 98 sq. in. Imagine what Gonzales would have done with a 98 sq. in. frame. He won over 40 titles inbetween 1952-1957. Laver won 38 in 1966-1969. Laver was the first server who could hit the line at match point down.

[RodHeckelman]

Surface, surface, surface

Sadly, without the fast hard courts or quick grass courts, the serve and volley is going to suffer. Note that even with many professional doubles teams that the serve and volley is being left out...ironically, I am seeing a rise in the serve and volley game with the club and recreational player who, after spending many years trying to emulate the top player's ground stroke games, now realize that a serve and volley game is very productive. Since the club level or recreational player makes up about 99% of our tennis population, you could say statistically, that the serve and volley game is making a tremendous comeback...