A glimmer of hope...turn shoulder to the ball and pick out that point where ball meets racquet. Watch the ball!
Keep it simple when it is all said and done. Get in position! Get your butt in position! Cha, cha, cha...three lines and Olè!
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Baby steps...
A glimmer of hope...turn shoulder to the ball and pick out that point where ball meets racquet. Watch the ball!
Keep it simple when it is all said and done. Get in position! Get your butt in position! Cha, cha, cha...three lines and Olè!
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Reflection
If one is ready to keep on, keep on thinking this way, note how, in landing, the rear foot touches down marginally ahead of the front one.
Which easily could indicate a walk in the park toward the net.
Also, for a closed forehand, one might use the same footwork but reversed.
For an open forehand, however (three physical steps probably or five), one is better off doing the Michael Jackson draw-in for starter block acceleration.
There is no reason in the world that footwork must always be identical in backhand and forehand directions.
P.S. A person conditioned to lugubrious prop followed by a big hitting step and linear weight transfer through the ball will need to keep third dribble very brief to allow time for the added hitting step-- a new, short one in which weight establishes itself early on the front foot aided by decisive rotation of the hips melding into extension of the legs.
Another possible means of buying some time could be to keep some space between one's feet during the cha-cha's of the pivoting "dribbalance." In the video, John McEnroe makes progress toward the ball in a circular but more likely slant before linear way.
Inchworms sometimes will do this: Wave front of the organism around in a new direction before chiming in with straightforward travel the way they want to go.
I keep getting a new idea every minute, which happens whenever one gives full attention to some new dance step. (Then one must forget it and come back to it, especially if one expects to do it properly in some big place where great dancers abound.)
My natural inclination is to do the sidestep like McEnroe and then bring the trailing foot directly around for the first of the doubled hitting steps.
That motion however would be unstable because wrong-footing and too long.
McEnroe uses two steps rather than one to get his trailing foot around. And behold his freaky balance and hence the freaking accuracy of this shot!
The steps all are brief but there are a lot of them.
Note that the rear foot skates body directly toward the ball-- twice. That doesn't mean that front foot is traveling straight toward the ball on the first of these skating thrusts. Rather, front foot is circling around like one leg of a compass. But the second thrust is indeed accomplished with a linear step. The rear foot got right-angled to ball in two pivots of dribbalance before either of these two skating thrusts.
Put the whole thing together. Do it slowly in the living room with no one around. After the first week, pick up some speed. The goal: mastery, of course.
But where will the energy come from to take so many more steps than one is used to? Who knows. Once speed has picked up, one should try to exhaust oneself on a single mimed backhand.
First it is "how slow can you go." Then "how fast can you go." Then how slow then how fast and repeat.
By following with utter persistence this prescription of bending stick the other way one will achieve one's desired super bratty super ease.
You are alternating feet. A right-hander's right foot will move first (1). It will replant a short distance around an arc toward the ball (2). It will replant farther around and now directly toward the ball (3). It will replant closer to the ball (4).
To fine tune this idea in progress: My suggesting that on first half of the double hitting step here, John McEnroe brings his trailing foot around like the free leg of a compass may be inaccurate.
That step may not be arc but could be just as linear as the next steps by the same foot just in a different direction.
We learn diagonal steps in ball room dance. This is one of them.
In fact, three of the four hitting foot steps are along the same slant line at 45 degrees to net and all four theoretically could be on that line!
John McEnroe isn't quick because he's Mercury the cheetah. He's taking his time. He's quick because he's brainy and economical.Last edited by bottle; 02-05-2013, 03:34 PM.Leave a comment:
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Dribble, Dribbalance, Dribble, DRIBBLE, Land
I can't count higher than five, so there it is-- five dribbles to a perfect backhand.
Through dribble one my toes point at the net.
Through dribbalance, I'm working the rear foot around.
During DRIBBLE, the ball gets hit.
Landing is the pogo-stuck jump (with "stuck" being the language of Olga, Nadia and Dominique).
Revised, the rhythm is 1,2,3,FOUR.
Last edited by bottle; 02-05-2013, 09:28 AM.Leave a comment:
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Eek
Try these five movements of the trailing foot in the living room (five if you count the landing).
Everybody-- but you in particular, esteemed reader-- occasionally needs a dose of sacrilege.
And so I state-- unequivocally-- that there isn't a unit turn here, that the trailing foot moves first.
Trailing foot discussion: The interval between first step and second is natural, between second and third so quick it's unnatural, between third and fourth natural, between fourth and fifth natural.
Inner foot discussion: The first step can only be called a unit turn if you accept that outer foot moved first. Altogether, in this sequence, there are four steps (four if you count the landing).
The interval between the first and second steps is natural, between the second and third so quick as to be termed unnatural, between the third and fourth natural again.
One might as well call the interval between the second and third steps a second unit turn since the inner foot is splaying in stages.
The Harvard oarsman John Higginson, whose civil war fighting ancestor went out with Emily Dickinson, fired me as his tennis coach when I started talking about footwork.
Talking about the footwork in this video would nevertheless be a good idea.Last edited by bottle; 02-04-2013, 10:24 AM.Leave a comment:
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One is trusting passion too when one answers right away. And there is transition to smooth off the edges of every scheme in sport until it becomes athletic.
For a while I've been thinking "all body" along with some arm straightening and slightly sequential unfurling of wrist. None of this seems like arm swing to me, so maybe I've finally come to a personal understanding of what John McEnroe meant by urging Greg Rusedski (or rather skewering him publicly for not doing it) to keep his elbow in.
Today's rough interpretation of continental backhand cosmos: Body to ball, arms from ball. If wrist is level transition then arm swing starts a little before the ball.
I see my rough interpretation however as bearing resemblance to the most compelling image in TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE. Vic Braden had a leather holster made for himself somewhere in South America, probably in Argentina because of all the cows there, and then hit backhands from his hips only without using any arm.
In Winchester, Virginia, I watched Vic Braden hit these hip-and-leg backhands, based on J. Donald Budge, for hour after hour, self-feeding and holding forth and only using a bit of arm.
You could almost see how he came up with a scheme for the masses when tennis was taking off in the seventies and eighties: a one-hander for the masses based on J. Donald Budge which put more body into the stroke than anyone ever thought possible.
But he, Vic, had everybody sit-and-hitting straight toward the net. There was none of the "45 degrees to the net" stated by Arthur Ashe and performed by both him and his secret friend despite their public differences John McEnroe with their added play and masterful smoothness and ease from supinated wrist.
For me, the body dominant locked wrist backhand of Vic Braden worked beautifully for a day here and a week there and my opponent whoever he was would say "Wow!" and I therefore was almost hooked.
Ultimately I got fed to the head with enclosing myself in a pretzel box.
Body dominant becomes looser with wrist as integral part and step-out at 45 rather than 90 degrees.
Looser, yes, but with fierce discipline at work too: The three lines you repeatedly stress, Steve Navarro, and a getting low, very low, on limber knees.
Ivan Lendl while getting narrowly past McEnroe for a 2013 final with Sampras in Detroit and at some point in the traveling circus shouting out about himself for the television cameras and microphones: "This is not a limber body!"
You know, I find myself getting interested again in the "prop" foot to use Tony Roche's term. It seems that JM's mincing steps get that rear foot square to ball.
If unit turn got prop foot parallel to baseline, another twiddle step or two gets foot farther around than that-- twiddle-twiddle until back foot is square to ball, which combined with a 45-degree final hitting step or even short, mincing adjustment, means that the rear foot is more than paralled with net as if prepared to skate to the outside.
I can't be talked away from this.Last edited by bottle; 02-05-2013, 05:09 AM.Leave a comment:
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Ditto that...bottle aka Johnny Boy!
Originally posted by bottle View Post
Right about the moment when the ball is in that upper space of the "E" in SIEBEL it is all going down..or rather it is on its way up. It is the point between the backswing and the forward swing...the "tweener". As twilight is that magic moment...the line of demarcation between day and night. It's "get in position" time. See how he is sitting...semi sitting. He's no martinet...he's a marionette. Do squats to improve the flexibility in the knees.
At the precise moment that the letters are readable on the ball he is set to unwind...Johnny is all wound up to go forwards as if his body is set like a wound rubber band. I have never seen a better example. A better role model for that matter. Then the weight transfer begins into the front foot followed by the first turning of the hips and the hands drop ala Ben Hogan.
This is just perfect...the hips and shoulders are nearly perfectly square to the ball and aligned with each other and the racquet is too! He has taken those three lines from his "get in position" and somehow reconstructed them or did he shift the whole enchilada together? It looks like together. Ok...good boy Johnny.
It appears that he drives the whole mass into the straightened forward leg at impact...gee, where have I seen that before. Three guesses and the first two don't count. Hint: Ben Hogan. By the way, he actually has not gone forwards...he has maintained his balance and stayed behind the ball. He has spun on an imaginary axis that goes through the top of his head and out of his...well, let's see how should I put it. Ok...out of his ass. He has rotated around his spine. Golf on the run. Balance is ultimately important.
Now look as the ball appears to be balanced on the inside crook of his elbow...feet, hips, shoulders and racquet once more appear to be in the same plane. He's smooth...the bad one is. Silky smooth...and smart too. Every shot has a purpose, a meaning. The computer chip in his noodle kicks out the data for every permutation and combination...he merely makes the decision based on previous experiences that leave indelible impressions on his cerebral cortex. His memory is photographic.
He's wolf-like in his sense of relying on his instincts...to think too much is to be lost. To be trapped. Better to trust your passionate feelings...when you are living on the razor's edge. When you are an artist dabbing at the canvas. Which may account for the occasional outburst? Which may account for the differences between some of us?
Even the outbursts seemed to have a karmic flow as well as a comic flow...and blended into the tapestry that was John McEnroe. He was James Dean on the tennis court. Both rebels. Johnny Rebel. Johnny get your gun. Johnny get your racquet. Johnny...Johnny, the flesh is weak only the soul is immortal! Both American icons, you know. Like it or not. McEnroe a Zen Master? Hmmm...leaves a real question mark over the head of Saint Agassi. Mr. Image is Everything.
Here is the yin to the yang in the first video. While he appears to be airborne in the first, here he is deeply rooted into the ground. Air and earth from the same wing. Alternating topspin and underspin in the very last all wood racquet final at Wimbledon against the Swedish Ice Bear...Björn Borg. How can you not love the guy? Ok, ok. I know, I know...the behavior. To which I say don't be so squeamish...lighten up. Your kids could do worse. Well, nobody's perfect you know.
That is why we practice so hard in this life. So that we can do just a little bit better in the next one.
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One Iteration of Same Video
Arm straightens = racket going down (A)
Wrist unfurls = racket starting up (B)
(A) = hips turning with knees bent
(B) = hips turning as legs straighten
The arm swing (C) causes the feet to leave the court.
Super bratty super ease.Last edited by bottle; 02-02-2013, 06:43 PM.Leave a comment:
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More thoughts about the continental gripped backhand...
From the front...note the unfurling of the wrist in coordination with the shoulders.
From the rear...note the furling of the wrist as the shoulders turn back to the approaching ball.
In the first clip above stop it when the ball is precisely in the upper part of the "E" in SIEBEL. Look at the three lines he has created with the feet, the body and the racquet. Precisely here he is ready to turn back to the ball. I have talked about those three lines in many of my posts. Look at that shoulder turn...the front shoulder pointed squarely at the ball. Arthur Ashe spoke of that position as I recall...many years ago. Don Budge also spoke to me about it...personally. Lastly...look at the eyes. They see nothing but the ball.
If you feel a little tentative. A little unsure of yourself it is difficult to make that kind of commitment to the swing. I found that to be true in golf as well. The body stiffens when the nerves are in play.
Yes...everyone is different, aren't they? Hmmm, yes how true....but as far as the learning cycle that you note, it's all the same to me. It is a natural motion...at least more natural than the forehand where the wrist is so much more in play. But here comes the continental backhand McEnroe style and suddenly there is this business about the supinated wrist when you drive with topspin. It's not the same thing. It's a different animal. It is a flourish...of the brush in the hands of an artist. Of the racquet in the hands of an extremely accomplished tennis player.Originally posted by tennis_chiro View Post
The Rosewallian example is one for all times...but that too has been delegated to the mulch pile. That stroke can and should be played with genius...defense, offense, subtle offense, approach shots, drop shots and lobs just to begin. The continental grip is a perfect complement to this technique...much variety from a single motion...from a single backswing. Johnny was so sweet off the backhand side. Alternating slice and drive to Borg on the grass...what kind of genius is that. Upsetting the monotone of the Swede's topspin. Dismantling the Swede tactically. Death by a thousand cuts. Slice and dice.
When I was a tennis player in a previous life...I remember very well the feel of the white light hitting me in the forehead when I "discovered" how to topspin the backhand. What a revelation that was. What a lot of work that was. A lot of it was done against the wall...with a Jack Kramer Pro Staff. That was one of the things that boosted my sense of being a player and one of the things that came at a time when I was learning how to "win" on a bad day. Two really important notches on the belt.
I fully anticipate the steps that you mentioned as I am teaching myself to drive this continental gripped backhand ala McEnroe...difficult, natural and finally wonderful. I am somewhat between difficult and natural...oh hell, to be honest I must admit it is still difficult. But against the wall and when rallying there are moments of finding the groove...when all of the ducks are in a row. That is a wonderful feeling, isn't it? Match play or match practice is of course a different story as there are issues with the opponent who has no interest in my backhand feeling wonderful to me.
Everyone is different but there is a common thread. No matter how talented you are or no matter how much talent you lack there is only one thing that this old world truly understands and that is value of hard work. First comes the idea, then comes the way forward mapped out in the goldmine of the brain, then it is all about blood, sweat and tears. Practice, evaluate, more practice. Finally...revelation. What a beautiful thing. The struggle. The hurt. The pain. Nothing comes easy. Nothing that is worth having...that is. If...it is worth fighting for.
I said those words a long time ago. To a fledgling group of pledges at my college fraternity on the eve of their Hell Night. Welcome to the real world...boys!
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Originally posted by don_budge View Post
Everyone is different. When I started playing tennis as a 14 year-old, I struggled mightily to hit the backhand. Really, when you learn the game that late, you struggle with everything. You make so many errors starting to learn the game; I think players tend to forget the interminable years they spent as young children hitting and missing. That's one reason I think QuickStart programs are so great. That initial hurdle is huge.
In any case, I struggled initially to learn the backhand, to get the serve in, to hit a second serve, and on and on. The least of my worries was learning to hit the forehand, even if it did stink. Then when I was 17 before my freshman year in college, my coach, Mr. Sears at Griffith Park, sent me to see Bob Harmon in Santa Monica. One of his claims to fame was teaching Jack Kramer. Pretty good credential. I took a half a dozen lessons from Mr. Harmon that summer, but I really didn't get it. In the meantime, I was developing a simple backhand that was pretty reliable. My forehand was barely adequate and I rarely spent any time on the baseline if I could help it; certainly, never on my service games. A passable forehand, a decent backhand, good volleys and a great serve (didn't need anyone else to practice my serve!) got me to three semis and a quarters (dbls and sngls) in two NAIA national championships. We didn't play tie-breakers and I rarely lost my serve. My forehand probably played as big a part as anything in keeping from going any further. But by now (about 7 years in), my backhand felt good and my forehand just about never did. By the time I was in my mid-twenties, my backhand was the most natural swing in the world. And by now, my forehand was really in my head. And it made all the sense to me. The backhand was a much simpler stroke; the body didn't have to rotate as I hit the shot like it did on the forehand. I switched grips automatically to a mild Eastern backhand grip on the backswing (executed as the left/opposite hand pulled the racket back). I diminished the grip change if I wanted to hit the slice (more Rosewallian). Unfortunately, I didn't have my current knowledge to help me develop the forehand I wanted (actually hardly anyone had the knowledge at that time to hit the forehand I would teach myself today and I'm not sure anyone hit it). It took me another 20 years before I really started to figure out the forehand. I think the key for me was emulating kids at the Palmer Academy in 1995 hitting forehands to each other with both players standing in the alley within about 15 feet of the net, with lots of spin; learning to get the racket head below the ball and to hit up and beyond the ball as it left my racket just allowing it to come down. I still don't have a great forehand, but at least I can hit it now and it feels good. For all those years, the backhand was the much more natural feeling stroke, and the easier one for me to hit. Now, when I hit with my students, I control the ball better with my forehand because I don't have to get in as good a position to hit it.
The point is, at different times in my learning cycle, the backhand felt difficult, then natural, then wonderful, and now it is a little too much work for my aging shoulder. The only time the backhand was really difficult was trying to learn to get below the ball to hit it with a little top. It was always easy to hit the continental grip/slice backhand, at least the Rosewallian one. It's the simplest stroke in the world, at least once you get past the initial learning struggle to get used to hit something on the opposite side of your body. Now to hit it as well as Rosewall and get it into those tight little windows - that's another story. And I feel you can do a lot more most of the time with the Eastern grip and at least a little topspin. But it puzzles me that more players don't learn to utilize a Rosewallian slice as a significant part of their arsenal. I just don't buy the argument that you can't use it against today's heavy topspin ball. Certainly, it is difficult to use when the ball gets up to shoulder level and you are going to be forced into a more Federerian slice a lot of the time, but I tend to think Rosewall would have taken that ball on the rise and turned that topspin and upward move of the ball to his advantage to deliver a Rosewallian slice that penetrated the court and then gripped the surface and stayed very low while keeping his opponent well back in the court. At least he would have used that extreme slice to elicit the short ball opportunity he was looking for.
Generally, teaching, it seems much harder to learn the one-hander; but if I can get the student over the initial hurdle to where they have a little feel and confidence in their one-handed backhand, it's easier to develop that into a "natural" stroke that they love to hit. And once they get the basic shot down, they love adding the slice to their repertoire. And it's much easier for them to do that than for the two-handed player.
donLeave a comment:
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Dear bottle...
Your input into this thread has been deeply appreciated. The continental gripped backhand is a lonely journey...as you once put it. But I am determined to do it. It requires a lot of thought and a lot of work. The best therapy that life has to offer.Originally posted by bottle View Post
Personally...I am really glad that you have come out to the forum on a more regular basis. I enjoy your personal thread of course but your thoughts and inputs I find very meaningful and provocative. That is of course what a good teacher does...I think. Provoke.
The forehand I find more or less a natural motion and an immediate and effective weapon. The drive backhand is more of a puzzle...the pieces all need to fit together. One needs to connect the dots. Maybe it has something to do with the left side vs. the right side...my being left handed like the mad genius we are analyzing may have something to do with it.
But at any rate, your comments have been very interesting and I find them supportive as I make my way down this arduous path. I think of the other mad genius...Bill Tilden as he sequestered himself somewhere in New England so many years ago determined to drive his backhand with impunity. I may not be a genius but there are those that might swear that I am mad...sequestered here in the Nordic Land of Sweden determined to drive my backhand come spring! Come hell or high water...
Tiger Woods stood on the practice tee...peering into the drizzling rain. Cold and hungry he was tempted to call it quits. He bit his lip and quietly thought to himself as he teed up another ball...nobody will outwork me.
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Interesting this flip stuff. It suddenly occurred to me that perhaps I should look at my own forehand, being as I am continental...actually I hit my forehand with a grip ever so slightly toward a backhand grip. But I am by no means flipless. I have LOTs of flip.
From the side view it looks like I might have no flip.
But the rear view shows a lot of flip. It's not a slow motion clip but you can discern a full flip going on quite clearly, especially the last two or three shots.
Last edited by stotty; 01-28-2013, 02:28 PM.Leave a comment:
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It seems as if this shot, though very unique as 10splayer says, should be easy to hit since there's less for a person to do.
Most of these M forehands in the video trove (where there are more of them than M backhands) are hit with pretty level unchanging shoulders.
I recently was therefore trying to figure out how M's racket gets so low. Right now I think it's because M's hips are slightly behind his head, and because the straight arm to racket tip line creates length.
Don't know yet if there is independence of arm near the low point but expect to develop opinion when the doctor, therapist and I think I can play again.Leave a comment:
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Yup....Not only is there no flip, but hardly any wrist extension in the forward swing. The shaft of the racquet stays "inline" with the arm virtually the entire swing. The extent to which is very, very unusual even by continental standards.Originally posted by licensedcoach View PostLeave a comment:
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