Interactive Forum for February 2014: Stan Wawrinka

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

(1) The pro tours care more about TV views that include unimportant things like the name of the city behind the court, the sponsor boards that are behind the court, & some spectators in the stands, than they do about providing a TV view in which the TV viewers feel close to the court. (The TV view for pro tournaments now is worse than it has ever been. It used to be pretty good, in some past decades.)

(2) The great coach Peter Burwash for years has emphasized the imp, ortance of the off hand (usually the left hand) in hitting good tennis strokes, obviously including backhands. My old great coach Peter Scott used to teach rhythm drills for 1-hand topspin backhands, so that players could learn to let left & right hands work together.

(3) Wawrinka's topspin backhand is very tight & compact. He tracks the ball with the edge of the racket (in a comparatively forward position).

He starts his backswing almost as the incoming ball is touching the court. Certainly, he does not mindlessly get the racket back too early.

He has a strong hammer grip for his topspin backhand, with the racket throat at a right angle with his forearm.

He positions himself mostly behind the incoming ball, so that when he makes contact, he does not have to straighten his arm out towards the sideline. (His power goes out forward in a line towards the target.)

[Stan's slice backhand uses a weaker grip, with his hand not far enough behind the racket. There are some problems with Stan's slice, which I might discuss later.]

[bottle]

I agree. And from separation left hand just sits to the player's side and watches everything depart as if Stanislas Wawrinka besides having a famous tattoo on his arm has an extra set of eyeballs embedded in his left palm.

You get the exact same look over and over in the very good baseball book LAU'S LAWS ON HITTING only in different places, i.e., where does some batter let go? Where did Bjorn Borg let go in his early backhands?

The proactive nature of the left hand-- before the separation-- certainly relates to grip change for those of us who did not start in ready position with a full backhand grip. Fingers of right hand relax as left hand pulls back. Left fingers can contribute to closing of the racket face too if you have fingers in control position on the throat and are willing to slide thumb over the middle finger or full set of fingers. And I don't see why all of this can't happen soon and at once to form the low skunk tail. In one of the above sequences you can even see Stan running with left hand holding the vertical skunk tail in place.

Next, everything winds down, sometimes a lot behind the back, a little behind the back, strictly in the slot, to racket tip by right calf-- there is variety if not infinite variety in the Wawrinkles.

Left hand before separation goes farther and a lot farther because of its position at the throat.

The big question for me is whether there should be any kind of a forward roll to counter the backward roll as in Rosewallian slice.

In one TennisPlayer sequence Stan's strings roll so far forward that they almost seem to catch up to the departing ball. In the sequence I chose today at A NEW YEAR'S SERVE, I see strings as not rolling at all, at least not at a time in the stroke when that would positively affect or negatively infect the shot.

[jryle1]

Guys,

Have a look at the role of the left arm in the stroke. It appears to play an instrumental role in the positioning and control of the racket right up until the start of the forward swing. I was aware of how important the left arm was initially in the one handed backhand but to me it appears to play an even more important role than I initially believed. The left arm appears to move much more than the right arm from the very beginning of the swing, right up to the separation of the hands.

Anyone else have any opinions on this?

[bottle]

The language of tennis instruction is so boring that it needs an infusion of skunk fart. But call skunk tail "vertical racket position" just for now.

My feeling is that one needs-- perhaps-- to experiment with size and location of any double loop. The 1954 Davis Cup video that we both like so much does not offer an insurmountable challenge for the ordinary player if we can assume that I am an ordinary player.

(As I listen to tales of other players in my age range however I may be becoming less sure.)

The double rolls in the three sequences of Ken Rosewall's backhand slice are pretty tight. They are "upper register," i.e., the racket work behind his back is above the waist and succinct in a word.

I'm finding the whole pre-ball ritual can be pretty small-- even smaller than Rosewall's-- and still form self-astonishing response to a fast serve.

One could certainly minimize size of loop by keeping hand no higher than waist when trying to be Wawrinka. I am NOT a know-it-all but want to experiment in shrink-wrapping the whole skunk package if I'm getting late in coming to the ball.

[stotty]

Skunk Tail

I like the description "Skunk Tail". It's as good a term as any and infinitely easier to remember than most.

I initially thought Wawrinka's backhand would be a good model for juniors, but when I read the recent Chris Lewit article, it seems Wawrinka's "wrap around the body" backswing makes for difficult timing. I tried it myself this afternoon. Yes, it's tricky. Chris is right.

I wondered if having a completely vertical (I would use "Skunk Tail" but don't want to create an inner sanctum of language between the three of us) racket like Wawrinka leads to a "wrap around the body" backswing. I am assuming it does.

[bottle]

In all of your posts referring to "Skunk Tail" i never understood what you were talking about. I was afraid to ask...I thought 10splayer would confirm that I was stupid...again.

Guess you never got skunked. Up goes the tail. The skunk turns. Watch out!

[10splayer]

In all of your posts referring to "Skunk Tail" i never understood what you were talking about. I was afraid to ask...I thought 10splayer would confirm that I was stupid...again.

Hehe, If you're gonna whine like a little bitch, at least get it right. Just told you to get over yourself once or twice. I find you extremely intelligent...And if im honest, down deep, way down deep, i enjoy your posts.....

[don_budge]

Skunk tail...

Backhand slice and topspin start from skunk tail (vertical racket) position but use different grip structures.

In all of your posts referring to "Skunk Tail" i never understood what you were talking about.

[gzhpcu]

His service coil is interesting in that it appears he doesn't coil his torso as much as some players (of course not as much as Sampras or McEnroe). In the coil phase, his right toe is actually past his left toe, facing towards the net. This would indicate he'll open up his hips early in the swing. His left shoulder also appears more open to the court/net earlier than Fed. Clearly, his serve is not a weakness. So, he's talented. Thoughts?

It seems offset by a great racket drop:



Guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. Question is: could he get even more power by coiling more? I think so...

[gazelle]

Service turn-90 degrees, not 110 or more?

His service coil is interesting in that it appears he doesn't coil his torso as much as some players (of course not as much as Sampras or McEnroe). In the coil phase, his right toe is actually past his left toe, facing towards the net. This would indicate he'll open up his hips early in the swing. His left shoulder also appears more open to the court/net earlier than Fed. Clearly, his serve is not a weakness. So, he's talented. Thoughts?

[bottle]

Skunk Tail Preparation

Backhand slice and topspin start from skunk tail (vertical racket) position but use different grip structures.

The slice stroke in this case goes downward more than it normally has to at least in recreational tennis. If big knuckle is on the 2.5 clitoral ridge there can be more backward to forward roll producing level swing to ball and then a steep departure from ball thanks to end of forward roll combining with a bit of downward wrist. The stroke next flows into a followthrough identical to that of Stan Wawrinka.

The topspin follows a similar pattern of backward and forward roll but with these two elements separated far apart by a "square" swing notable for its simplicity.

I put the word "square" in quote marks here since it refers to maintained pitch of the racket.

The rollover at end has less to do with hitting the ball then relaxing oneself to recover with a loop rather than stop the racket early and then bring it down to ready position.

Correct grip is the grip and wrist setting that most easily produces the square swing.

[gzhpcu]

Wow! Best clip I've seen here to date. As I mentioned in another thread, why don't TV channels use this perspective anymore? I have pointed towards old clips of Edberg/Becker, Laver/Borg using this perspective and it gives you a much better view and the feeling of being there. You see the spin on the ball much better than in the boring high view shown nowadays...

[stotty]

I love the preparation and the filmwork is fabulous.

It's hard not to be happy for Stan for his Australian Grand Slam win--although the outcome could have been different, possibly, if he hadn't had some help from Rafa's back. In any case, after his victory, we received multiple, multiple requests to look at his amazing backhand. First I want to point out that there are hundreds of Wawrinka clips in the regular Stroke Archive that give a very complete picture of his game. (Click Here.)

But here is a new incredible high speed sequence, starting with a first serve and a forehand, that then shows Both Stan's slice and that amazing topspin drive, and wonderfully, from the rear court level angle. And yes, we are putting together a new high speed archive segment on Stan for later this year. In the meantime here are some questions: what can you see about his grip? Preparation? Stance? Body rotation? Swing path? All gorgeous yes! But what about the how and why?

What I like most about Wawrina's backhand is his preparation. It looks perfect. I like his "holding" position. It makes it looks like he has an age to play even very quick incoming balls. I also like the path of the backswing with the racket tip pointing up and perfectly distanced from his body.

Regarding the filming, if the camera were panned further back to view the full court's width...and some, this would be a great way to film tennis for TV. Viewers would really feel like they were in there with the player. It would be more intimate. For coaching purposes it would better illustrate net clearance. With the traditional more elevated view, most juniors are duped in to thinking the ball is crossing the net by just two inches...annoying.

With the modern technology available, you would think networks could make tennis viewing so much more interesting. The BBC has been filming tennis at Wimbledon from the same camera position for the last 50 years. Time for change...

Great clip...wonderfully filmed as always. Thanks, John

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

[johnyandell]

It's hard not to be happy for Stan for his Australian Grand Slam win--although the outcome could have been different, possibly, if he hadn't had some help from Rafa's back. In any case, after his victory, we received multiple, multiple requests to look at his amazing backhand. First I want to point out that there are hundreds of Wawrinka clips in the regular Stroke Archive that give a very complete picture of his game. (Click Here.)

But here is a new incredible high speed sequence, starting with a first serve and a forehand, that then shows Both Stan's slice and that amazing topspin drive, and wonderfully, from the rear court level angle. And yes, we are putting together a new high speed archive segment on Stan for later this year. In the meantime here are some questions: what can you see about his grip? Preparation? Stance? Body rotation? Swing path? All gorgeous yes! But what about the how and why?