For Kyle: Emerson explains slice backhand...

[don_budge]

Permutations...or Derivatives?

The more the grip the more out front. Of course that doesn't take into account whether the wrist is locked up or straightened a bit or even curled. Or how much or little or no roll to contact there is.

Any answer from bottle is bound to provoke more questions...

...You're right, it is fundamental teaching...
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Fundamentals...fundamentally correct (FC)

Very old school, isn't it? I agree about taking the racket back to the height of the incoming ball...certainly at club level this works well...though the pro's these days don't seem to do this.

I'm not sure about the contact point being way out in front, as the sliced backhand is typically played later than a topspin backhand. On wider balls the contact tends to be late-ish when hitting sliced backhands.

I think the contact point depends greatly on the grip. A player with a strong grip you'd think would make contact further in front than a player with weaker grip. I think it might be wrong to universally say the contact should be way out in front.

I think it also depends on circumstances and the position in the court a player finds himself in...it's situational.

I have never considered grips to be an exact science. I think the heel of the hand is a universal reference point for all of us but other than that hands come in different sizes and shapes...not to mention finger length. No one ever seems to recognise grips aren't an exact science. I find grips to be quite personal...almost like fingerprints. Grips in some ways probably determine the finer points of shot making.

Of all of the beautiful tennis strokes to be found from A to Z or from the baseline to the net the slice backhand has more flexibility and more range or variety. You can start in the backcourt and begin with Roy Emerson's explanation of the fundamental slice backhand and work your way forwards and beyond.

Of all of the strokes in tennis...this is the shot that gets my hand sliding around the grip in more subtle ways than any other. Go any where on the court...have a student hold the ball at any height to you or forwards or backwards in your stance...now put your racquet face on the ball and adjust your grip in the manner in which you envision hitting the ball hovering in space that your student is holding. If you are an accomplished classic tennis player you can adapt or fit your body around your grip and your racquet in order to give the ball a perfectly rotating spin backwards. Voila...the slice.

Slice backhands run the gamut from nearly flat driving backhand of Ken Rosewall or even a Don Budge. Today you have the gargantuan slices that are rather one dimensional...it is the rare bird that uses the slice in a plethora of manner these days. But the permutations...as bottle likes to say are almost limitless. Afterall...how many points are there on any given tennis court? Infinite I would say...last time that I counted. But be that as it may...Roy Emerson's fundamental backhand advise is a good place to start and one can begin to sort out the derivatives as one goes along.

Perhaps you could say that Emerson's is the fundamental swing...what's the harm. Just build on it...all of you architects. Use your vivid and infinite imaginations. The gold mine. Backhand drive with slice...high backhands either returned low or high...soft and slow...or medium to average...low backhands...with more or less spin...lobs thrown up into the wind or with the wind...how much spin vs. how much pace vs. what type of trajectory...met earlier or later in you stance...depending upon what it is that you are tactically trying to achieve...approach shots...deep or short...heavier spin or less spin...more pace or less pace...half volleys...overspin or underspin...to the net...volley...crisp drive volley...feathered underspin delicacy...or slash under the ball to bounce it on your opponents side and spin it back...try it with a wood racquet too!

So what is the answer to your question...how about...I don't know. It's complicated.

The mother of all slices...I poached as my partner was serving from the deuce side of the court being left handed and caught the ball well to the other side of the court and very close to the net. I came around the outside of the ball on the lower edge and gave the ball so much spin that it went virtually nearly ninety degrees to my left and spun back across the net some three meters to my left. It cleared the net half a decimeter over the net at the apex of it's bounce. I have seen the tennis ball do virtually everything in my years, but never that. I told my three young partners to remember that shot because they were never going to see a shot like that again. They were amazed and to honest, I amazed myself...and I am not easily impressed. Least of all with myself...if you can imagine. It was statistically speaking...a rare event. One never to be duplicated.

The Newcombe tennis ranch where this video was filmed is probably not what you would call a junior development oriented location. I am not certain of this. But my ex-girlfriend...who by the way is not out of Ana's league...told me last week when she was there that she had a whale of a time. She was gushing how she wants to go back next year. She just started playing a year ago and she has played nine days in a row at this point. She's a 3.0 player...whatever that means. I thought she was a solid 8.5 when we were together. Maybe a 9.0. Just for the bloody fun of it. I thought that it was just great for her to get a bit of the Aussie party school of tennis in her blood.

The audience there when Emerson was giving his little talk may have all been half in the bag from the night before for all we know. Newcombe's Tennis Ranch has a reputation you know. You heard the young fellow say something about not going into the shenanigans. Just great! So Emerson is going to give it to them straight...with no muss and no fuss. No bells and whistles. Just nice and simple and to the point. Fundamentally correct (FC) no less.

I never said that I was an expert on "fundentals"...isn't that an oxymoron by the way? I am not even a self-proclaimed expert on fundamentals. I am a student of the game of tennis. Tennis may be a metaphor for life...or even the universe as it is ever expanding as is my knowledge of the game. Bob Brett told me that it is just a hobby to him...I looked at him and I immediately knew what he meant. Then we had a bit of a conversation about what that meant to him...nothing deep but filling in the blanks. Connecting dots. I must say...I just love the old Aussie attitude. It makes me proud to have had the wisdom to have selected Harry Hopman as the coach of my paradigm of tennis...tennis coaching that is. It's original. It is based on fundamentals. Bob liked it. He nodded in approval...he gave me an approving look. A devilish smile.

But I can connect the dots. With a little help from my friends.

[stotty]

The video

Very old school, isn't it? I agree about taking the racket back to the height of the incoming ball...certainly at club level this works well...though the pro's these days don't seem to do this.

I'm not sure about the contact point being way out in front, as the sliced backhand is typically played later than a topspin backhand. On wider balls the contact tends to be late-ish when hitting sliced backhands.

I think the contact point depends greatly on the grip. A player with a strong grip you'd think would make contact further in front than a player with weaker grip. I think it might be wrong to universally say the contact should be way out in front.

I think it also depends on circumstances and the position in the court a player finds himself in...it's situational.

I have never considered grips to be an exact science. I think the heel of the hand is a universal reference point for all of us but other than that hands come in different sizes and shapes...not to mention finger length. No one ever seems to recognise grips aren't an exact science. I find grips to be quite personal...almost like fingerprints. Grips in some ways probably determine the finer points of shot making.

[klacr]

That's odd klacr...I don't find anything wrong with his teaching of the fundamental slice backhand. Teach fundamentals and build on them.

I didn't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with Emerson's teachings. Not at all. You're right, it is fundamental teaching. Just meant people will want to add stuff to it, make it fancy or give it something special. That's all. I like it the way it is. But it is bare bones. Put Rick Macci or Bollettieri in there and they will give it a sexy name and story behind it. Not that I want the sexiness. But many do. All good.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

The more the grip the more out front. Of course that doesn't take into account whether the wrist is locked up or straightened a bit or even curled. Or how much or little or no roll to contact there is.

[10splayer]

That's odd klacr...I don't find anything wrong with his teaching of the fundamental slice backhand. Teach fundamentals and build on them. Emerson has a very nice way of putting it...in fact I went out of my way today to advise an 8 or 9 year old boy in the program who has begun swinging at his backhand with one hand with a severe downward trajectory motion. I gave him the Emerson verbatim as nearly as I could remember it.

The only people that will start chortling or looking down their long noses are your prototypical junior development coaches who have gone down the path of modern tennis in lieu of fundamentals.

Only modern day arrogance would be so fundamentally stupid to not give the teachings of such a legend the respect it is due. This teaching has withstood the test of time...even though the game is technically not the same game as it was back then. All manmade interference...I mean engineering. Don't even try to use the word evolution here.

An ex-girlfriend of mine called me last week to tell me that she had attended the John Newcombe Tennis Ranch last week. She was so excited to have met Newc in the pro-shop as she was leaving. These Australian legends are all a product of the coach of my paradigm...Harry Hopman. My hat is off to all of them. I can see why this young coach is so honored and pleased to be on the same tennis court as Roy Emerson. What a great guy...just like Rod Laver. He and Laver collaborated on a book called "Tennis for the Bloody Fun of It".

I think that many times tennis discussions among coaches discussing technique sort of miss the point. It is one thing what the professionals are doing and quite another what teaching fundamentals is all about. You can build on fundamentals...there isn't much room to go if it is all ATP forehand and two handed backhand. This slice backhand is the foundation of good solid defensive play or subtle attack on the one hand backhand side.

You're so obnoxious . I know this forum is something u NEED in your life(oh the need to be heard) but would u please practice what u preach....respect.

Since you're an expert on "fundentals" please explain how grip effects contact point.

[don_budge]

Roy Emerson on the slice backhand...fundamentally correct (FC)

Thanks Phil!

I'm sure some people will poke holes in Emo's teaching and I can understand why...
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

That's odd klacr...I don't find anything wrong with his teaching of the fundamental slice backhand. Teach fundamentals and build on them. Emerson has a very nice way of putting it...in fact I went out of my way today to advise an 8 or 9 year old boy in the program who has begun swinging at his backhand with one hand with a severe downward trajectory motion. I gave him the Emerson verbatim as nearly as I could remember it.

The only people that will start chortling or looking down their long noses are your prototypical junior development coaches who have gone down the path of modern tennis in lieu of fundamentals.

Only modern day arrogance would be so fundamentally stupid to not give the teachings of such a legend the respect it is due. This teaching has withstood the test of time...even though the game is technically not the same game as it was back then. All manmade interference...I mean engineering. Don't even try to use the word evolution here.

An ex-girlfriend of mine called me last week to tell me that she had attended the John Newcombe Tennis Ranch last week. She was so excited to have met Newc in the pro-shop as she was leaving. These Australian legends are all a product of the coach of my paradigm...Harry Hopman. My hat is off to all of them. I can see why this young coach is so honored and pleased to be on the same tennis court as Roy Emerson. What a great guy...just like Rod Laver. He and Laver collaborated on a book called "Tennis for the Bloody Fun of It".

I think that many times tennis discussions among coaches discussing technique sort of miss the point. It is one thing what the professionals are doing and quite another what teaching fundamentals is all about. You can build on fundamentals...there isn't much room to go if it is all ATP forehand and two handed backhand. This slice backhand is the foundation of good solid defensive play or subtle attack on the one hand backhand side.

[bottle]

No need to apologize for this slice! I may be entranced with my Rosewallian double roll with "Australian" (term used by Ellsworth Vines) grip halfway between continental and eastern forehand, but I'm sure as hell going to try what I just saw here, especially on service return against a fast ball since there are fewer moving parts.

[gzhpcu]

Here's Emmo playing at his peak (against Charles Pasarell)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Y8eiG5ta0

[gzhpcu]

I can well imagine Kyle, I would be very proud to know him as well!

[klacr]

Thanks Phil!

I'm sure some people will poke holes in Emo's teaching and I can understand why, but it's not about his teachings per se, It's about him as a legend. The things he's seen, the stories he could share. We've developed a nice relationship over the the past year since our meeting back in April 2013. It sounds cheesy, but I can say it's one of my most sacred and proudest possessions of my life, the fact that I know him and he knows me.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Hi Kyle,
Found this, since you were mentioning Roy Emerson hitting slices at a tennis camp.... Enjoy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXDwZMY1LTg