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2014 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals…ATP 1500...London, England

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Peak Performance…coming down to the wire. The Stretch Run!

    Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
    So Murray starts the match in the first game and Federer is down 0-30. Hmm, I thought, looks like Federer is in trouble and might lose his serve right at the start.
    Oh ye of little faith!…I had the same fleeting thought. Down 0-30…then there was a 35 shot exchange which ended up being the longest of the match. Federer won it but I was left wondering…and not only me Peter Fleming started to hedge his bets a little.

    Immediately after that point I was wondering to myself could Federer sustain such a pace. My answer was and still is…I doubt that he could. Peter Fleming on the other hand was saying that everyone was saying that Andy Murray was going to have to more aggressive in this match but he was saying he wasn't so certain. Especially after that point. I can understand his doubt.

    Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
    One thing that I have always thought about Murray is that he has to let the game come to him. This has always been the case since he was a kid. It's a lifelong characteristic. He has rarely been able to go out all guns blazing from the outset. Some players can do this and some players can't. Murray has to work his way into matches and gradually impose himself on his opponent. I don't understand why he strayed so far away from his usual methodology. In doing so he let the best frontrunner the game has ever seen a gaping great door to bolt through.
    I think that this is true about Murray and it is one of his greatest strengths. Against most of the players he can sort of dictate the play at a certain speed of play but when he is up against a player of Federer's pedigree…he is always going to be second when it really counts…as Greg Rusedski opined before the match. Let the game come to you also means that you have to go out and seize the moment and you cannot pussyfoot around and be passive against such an energy as the one Roger Federer possessed this November evening in London.

    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    For Murray's part he may as well be coached by a girl because he really played like a pussy yesterday.
    When I said that Murray played like a pussy against Nishikori I was merely calling a spade a spade. I stand by what I said. No uncertain terms. Look up pussy in the dictionary. It means one of several things. Either a vulgar term for a woman's genitals or a weak, cowardly, or effeminate man. It could be the informal for a cat. Guess which context I was using. Get a life. It is one thing to counter shots with players that have no more in mind than camping out on the baseline but it is quite another against a player that is trying to disrupt your game by any means necessary. You cannot pussyfoot around with the latter. Murray played like a woman…look for the lesbian coach to disappear.

    Once and for all Federer is putting on a display and a clinic that demonstrates why the modern game is ineffective and inferior to the classic game. EVery single player from the classic era was capable of playing this kind of tennis…maybe not at the level we witnessed last night but certainly at very high levels. I have seen John McEnroe at that level many, many times and he was also very destructive on the strong gripped forehand, two handed backhand game. The myth of the modern game.

    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    Federer has gaged every step and every moment since the Parisian debacle against Milos Raonic to arrive in London in the fittest and sharpest of condition. He has gaged it exactly right as he has escalated his performance in the first two matches and still seems to have another gear to shift into. I suspect we will see glimpses of that Thursday against Murray. Here is what Murray had to say and he is measuring his words as he doesn't want to piss off the Swiss Knife any more than he already is.

    “It will be obviously a very difficult match,” said Murray. “But it will be an exciting match. A good one to be part of. I hope I can play well. We've had some very good matches over the years. I hope on Thursday it will be the same.”

    I detect doubt. Whenever I here the word "hope" more than once in a statement it turns out to be pie in the sky. Anybody here remember some unknown pariah preaching "hope and change" to a nation of hopefuls. How about "more of the same"…meet the new boss same as the old boss. I hope Roger pins his ears back. Period.

    Wow!
    The above is what I have really nailed…so far in this tournament. You can say all you want about this, that and the other thing. But this is match play psychology…right out of the book…the Bible of Tennis. Match Play and Spin of the Ball. Tilden is the book. This tournament is the result of weeks of preparation. I would guess that the planning for this was to commence right after the U. S. Open.

    Roger is now in the midst of his plan as he enters the semifinal phase of operations. He has had the quick match that he needed. He had the peak performance that he was looking for. When he had Murray down he never let up and he was just relentless and ruthless. Just as a tennis player should be…every time he walks out onto the tennis court. Once you reach that point there is no point in pussyfooting around you go for the jugular…and he had Murray by the throat last night. Now he has a day of rest and he can spend the time resting and getting in a hit just to confirm what he now suspects…he is there and he is ready. In the moment. Aaron would say that he is "treeing"…meaning he is in the upper branches looking down on us.

    Federer sent a message too over on the other half of the draw to Mr. Djokovic. Just incidentally. The court is playing really slow which is lucky for Djokovic because otherwise it might change the complexion of things to come. Now you must listen and understand that this game has been fixed for a long time…the engineering is out of control.

    It's the racquet. That is what I was hoping for in the Open…but Monfils screwed that up with a sensational performance in the quarters. Then Federer was vulnerable for "The Sleeper" Marin Cilic to knock him out. He had no legs. Ok…no matter. The Champion is undeterred. Go back to the drawing board and come up with the next plan. Stefan Edberg and the racquet. Stefan has Federer resorting to the old school tactics which are not old school at all. They are merely fundamental tennis tactics and psychology. There is nothing new under the sun but more and more people are starting to not understand the importance of knowing your history.

    In the world of tennis one can come off being ignorant without endangering the world. The same cannot be said for poiitics and foreign relations.

    That match last night was exciting and riveting. I sure am glad that I was able to watch it here in the comfort of my office and not have to make the drive to the O2 and pay a zillion dollars. I don't particularly like crowds. You can understand why.
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-14-2014, 01:52 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...

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  • gzhpcu
    replied
    So Murray starts the match in the first game and Federer is down 0-30. Hmm, I thought, looks like Federer is in trouble and might lose his serve right at the start. Afterwards, Federer put on a brilliant display of varied shot-making, the best I have ever seen! He displayed every shot in the book: groundstrokes, half-volleys, volleys, serve and volley, chip and charge. Simply devastating, and his 6-0,6-1 with practically no aces!

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  • klacr
    replied
    Beat down city. Federer was ruthless. Murray was listless. I knew it was a going to be a rough day for the Scot when at 2-0 in first set Murray was already jawing at his box. That was uncomfortable to watch.

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton

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  • stotty
    replied
    One thing that I have always thought about Murray is that he has to let the game come to him. This has always been the case since he was a kid. It's a lifelong characteristic. He has rarely been able to go out all guns blazing from the outset. Some players can do this and some players can't. Murray has to work his way into matches and gradually impose himself on his opponent. I don't understand why he strayed so far away from his usual methodology. In doing so he let the best frontrunner the game has ever seen a gaping great door to bolt through.

    I didn't care who won, I just wanted to see a good game.

    Murray panicked at the job in hand after the first few points and never got out of his panicked state. Federer was sensational but let's face it, he had a lot of help from Murray.

    Federer's post match walk-through of the game with Mark Pecci was one of the most revealing Federer has given. It revealed just how much Federer relies on feel, and the exact stage of the match when he knew everything was working and in place. He hit one extraordinary shot - an inside-in forehand struck with incredible velocity and while still moving laterally around the ball. The shot was sensational and one of the best you could ever see. I cannot imagine what it must be like to time a ball that well. Federer said it was from then onwards he knew he was going to have a great night. There was a sequence of other elements which led up to that "good feeling" but Federer knew from that sensational shot onwards he was all set to be rampant. It's feel first...then confidence.

    At 6-0 2-0, and with Murray still panicking, I told my son it could be 6-0 6-0...I was nearly right. My son, being a Federer fan, wouldn't have cared one bit.
    Last edited by stotty; 11-13-2014, 03:35 PM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    He who hesitates is lost...

    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    As for his upcoming match with Roger he senses just how fit and prepared the Swiss Maestro is at the moment. Federer has gaged every step and every moment since the Parisian debacle against Milos Raonic to arrive in London in the fittest and sharpest of condition. He has gaged it exactly right as he has escalated his performance in the first two matches and still seems to have another gear to shift into. I suspect we will see glimpses of that Thursday against Murray. Here is what Murray had to say and he is measuring his words as he doesn't want to piss off the Swiss Knife any more than he already is.

    “It will be obviously a very difficult match,” said Murray. “But it will be an exciting match. A good one to be part of. I hope I can play well. We've had some very good matches over the years. I hope on Thursday it will be the same.”

    I detect doubt. Whenever I here the word "hope" more than once in a statement it turns out to be pie in the sky. Anybody here remember some unknown pariah preaching "hope and change" to a nation of hopefuls. How about "more of the same"…meet the new boss same as the old boss. I hope Roger pins his ears back. Period.

    Wow!
    I got it right…more thoughts tomorrow.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    Murray had not been bageled in four years. 6-0 Federer.
    Nearly two bagels in one night...

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  • don_budge
    replied
    6-0…Bagel time

    Murray had not been bageled in four years. 6-0 Federer.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Andy Murray...

    …cannot buy a first serve. Down 4-0…first set. Roger Federer looking like a million bucks…and then some.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Roger is an all time favourite with our crowd.

    Originally posted by don_budge View Post


    Roger Federer vs. Andy Murray…Here is a match on paper that should be very close with a favored Roger Federer threatened by upset by underdog and hometown favorite Andy Murray. Does it make any difference to Londoners if Andy voted yes or no? Murray certainly has the defensive game to withstand the onslaught of Federer on a sandy laden court but does he have what it takes in the intestinal fortitude variable? Another question is how important is this match to Federer…he can play it soft too when the results don't seem to matter as much.

    Federer is giving us a clinic on preparation these last months. Somehow jockeying his relatively ancient body through the paces of trying to land in the number one position on the tour at the end of the year. It certainly has been a valiant effort win or lose and isn't that what it is all about in the end? Doing your best? I think so. Let the game come to you. That is exactly what he has done. He sprints and fights when he has too then he lets off of the reigns when it makes sense to grab a breath of air and pace himself. So here he is at the pinnacle…against Andy Murray in front of Murray's "hometown" crowd. It would have been "interesting" if the vote had gone to the "yes'"…would Andy still technically have had a hometown crowd. Anyone else thinking along those lines?

    It's ok isn't it? This is a forum?

    Good matches have been none existent so far at this venue at the O2. There could be two good ones tonight.
    I can tell you right now that the crowd will support Andy out of patriotic duty, but deep down they won't take too much encouragement to switch to Federer. Too much whinging and back clutching would certainly see to it. Andy is aware of it too.

    You will not believe how popular Roger is over here in the UK. He is like God in our neck of the world. The only other guy that has ever come close to this kind of reverence was Borg.

    I'm hoping for a humdinger of a match tonight. The tournament needs a shot in the arm. I've given up caring about who wins, I just want to see a thriller.

    And yes it's a forum...anything goes. We should have the right to discuss the undiscussable so long as it is meaningful dialogue. A bit of comedy here and there doesn't go amiss either...
    Last edited by stotty; 11-13-2014, 03:41 AM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Judging from the results...

    Judging from the results so far the courts must be playing exasperatingly slow. The only player with an outside chance of competing with the grinder and ultimate defensive player is Roger Federer on account of his multi tactical accommodation of technique. He is certified to play both defense and offence…the all court game.

    Novak Djokovic absolutely mowed down the number three seed Stanislas Wawrinka 6-3, 6-0. Tomas Berdych bulldozed Marin Cilic 6-3, 6-1. These kind of numbers are not very entertaining for an audience that has paid top dollar for a seat in the O2. I question the sense of paying for a ticket or traveling any amount of distance to go and see such an event. I wouldn't go to the end of my driveway which is only 400 meters long to see this debacle of a spectacle.

    Roger Federer vs. Andy Murray…Here is a match on paper that should be very close with a favored Roger Federer threatened by upset by underdog and hometown favorite Andy Murray. Does it make any difference to Londoners if Andy voted yes or no? Murray certainly has the defensive game to withstand the onslaught of Federer on a sandy laden court but does he have what it takes in the intestinal fortitude variable? Another question is how important is this match to Federer…he can play it soft too when the results don't seem to matter as much.

    Federer is giving us a clinic on preparation these last months. Somehow jockeying his relatively ancient body through the paces of trying to land in the number one position on the tour at the end of the year. It certainly has been a valiant effort win or lose and isn't that what it is all about in the end? Doing your best? I think so. Let the game come to you. That is exactly what he has done. He sprints and fights when he has too then he lets off of the reigns when it makes sense to grab a breath of air and pace himself. So here he is at the pinnacle…against Andy Murray in front of Murray's "hometown" crowd. It would have been "interesting" if the vote had gone to the "yes'"…would Andy still technically have had a hometown crowd. Anyone else thinking along those lines?

    It's ok isn't it? This is a forum?

    Good matches have been none existent so far at this venue at the O2. There could be two good ones tonight.
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-13-2014, 02:12 AM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    The courts…what company?

    Originally posted by klacr View Post
    Roger Federer blames the slow surface at the O2 for lopsided matches.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...p-matches.html

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton
    Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
    Yes, strange, isn't it. The court is laid by the same outfit that did Paris and handful of the other venues. They say the court is exactly the same as all the others they have laid. I wonder if the balls are different?
    It's just great that you fellows are commenting on things that pertain to the engineering of the game. When the term engineering comes up the word "fixing" immediately comes to mind. Fixing as in money fixing things. Is my harping raising the level of awareness about these things. The court speed is surely having an effect on the play and the entertainment value. I wonder if the tournament committee is happy with the results.

    By altering the court surface the Tennis Corporation will perceptively be altering the conditions for one reason of another. Remember the bitching and whining of Rafael Nadal last year as he was lobbying for slower surface…even a clay court. This is why there should be standards for equipment and the rest of it. The size of the court has never changed even though the racquets have. Is the fix to shrink the court in direct proportion to enlarging the equipment?

    I wonder too who made the courts. Was it a company owned by Emilio Sanchez? I attended a conference on courts by a company that was called "Green Set" I believe and helped to link a club in our area to have their courts resurfaced by them. It seems to me that I remember them mentioning some of the tournaments around Europe they were involved in.

    Magnus Gustavsson was my contact for this meeting. I got to hit balls with both of these guys. Magnus was really kind and said that I had a great old style game…this was after my fifteen year layoff from the game. Emilio was really cool too…he hit with me with a lesser racquet, something that he just picked up that turn out to be underweight which sort of evened the playing field…if you know what I mean. Both wonderful players and quite a thrill for me.
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-13-2014, 12:22 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...

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  • hockeyscout
    replied
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    [url]He is a bit lethargic and he fights this. But he is what he is…there is no changing that. A lumbering Canuck.
    Enough is enough. Sorry John for posting this, however, what is happening here is just plain wrong. Please, don_budge, it would just be great if you did not use that term Canuck. We kind of dislike non-Canadian's (American's like you) calling us by that term. I perceive it as racist based on your track record here on the forum. Also, please refrain from Canucklehead, Cheesehead, Hoser, Frog, Maple-Sucker, Moosefucker, Pepsi, Chug, Frog, 51st Stater, Puck, Puckchaser, Seal-Fucker, Snowbird or Shoobie. That'd just be great.

    As well the derogatory comments you've posted in recent weeks about Andy Murray, Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova (panty check) and Amelie Mauresmo are really uncalled for in my opinion, and regrettable.

    I'd know how much you hate proper certification, however, please, enroll into a sensitivity training course. It's not the dark ages anymore!
    Last edited by hockeyscout; 11-12-2014, 11:02 PM.

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  • hockeyscout
    replied
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
    For Murray's part he may as well be coached by a girl because he really played like a pussy yesterday.
    Wow. Abusive. Unacceptable. Sad.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Roger Federer vs. Kei Nishikori…It's a mismatch on paper. The only possibility when all things are equal as they were yesterday is that somehow Kei lulls Roger into a baseline duel of long points. But when Roger is throwing his full array of tactics at his opponent guys like Kei are always going to come in second. Nishikori tried to match him in wits on a number of occasions and he succeeded at times but overall he doesn't have the tactical spectrum as he is deficient once he is out of his comfort zone…which is camped out securely on the baseline. Andy Murray next for Roger…playing indoors is going to advantage Federer. I still cannot get a feel for the courts but they seem to be on the slow side. Advantage Novak Djokovic.
    I have to say I was expecting a better match here. I think the problem with Nishikori is one of having to compensate, compensate for at times is a weak serve. It really is a big ask at times. It means his baseline play has to be faultless, which it often is, but it's tough to play like that all the time.

    Another conundrum for me is this:

    Players often move well inside the baseline to return second serves. But they make no attempt to pulverise. Most times they are bluffing and place the ball deep...with no real penetration. I understand the logic is to pressurise the server but often it leaves the returner way inside the baseline and if the opponent manages a deep reply the returner is sometimes left out of position...and has to scamper back behind the baseline. This scenario happens quite a lot.

    Both Djokovic and Murray sometimes take second serves as much as five feet inside the baseline. I am surprised Djokovic doesn't go for more when he does it. It seems nothing more than mild pressurising most of the time.

    Maybe the serves kick up too much to do anything with...

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by klacr View Post
    Roger Federer blames the slow surface at the O2 for lopsided matches.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...p-matches.html

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton
    Yes, strange, isn't it. The court is laid by the same outfit that did Paris and handful of the other venues. They say the court is exactly the same as all the others they have laid. I wonder if the balls are different?

    Leave a comment:

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