Getting Players on the Pathway - and Keeping Them There

[bottle]

I think you're right.

[tennis_chiro]

there were 1112 competitors in 2015 Southern California Junior Sectionals. They almost all played 6 or more tournaments in the course of the year. We have somewhere between 20 and 25 million people in the "Southland" with nearly 20 million in the Greater Los Angeles metropolitan region and then adding in San Diego county to the south. So that participation represents about 1/13th or 1/14th of the total country's population so I guess those numbers make sense. Still, it is hard to believe there could be so few "tournament" players.

On the other hand, I just looked today at the entries for the Los Angeles Public Parks tournament, a qualifier for the national public parks. When I was a kid (60's), there were hundreds of entries in this tournament: Open, 35's, 45's, 55's and 65's and a couple of women's senior events as well. Now, despite all the different divisions, they were only able to field a draw of 4 players or less in the 50's, 60's and 80's man's events. All those thousands of players who are playing in that junior sectional tournament are not growing up loving to play tournament tennis. They are doing for all kinds of reasons and may even enjoy it, but few really love the game.

The population was smaller; there was no money in it; but people used to love to play a lot more. And there was much more of a community of tennis players. If you played seriously, you were a "tennis player"! Now most of the people playing are simply people for whom playing tennis is just something they do; in my youth, it almost defined who you were.

Certainly, there are those who really love to play, but people are not really willing to commit to loving the game if they are not going to be champions, and there are only a few of those. It takes a tremendous amount of time to develop any proficiency at all and that does not at all guarantee you success at the tournament level. People don't seem to be willing to stay tennis players if they are not hugely successful. I think it says something about the motivation underlying all the tennis those thousand kids have playing in the Junior Sectionals. Too many are playing for help getting into college or a better resume or to please their parents instead of playing because it is simply great fun and very satisfying to work at improving and COMPETE!

don

[johnyandell]

15,000 kids total boys and girls playing 6 or more tournaments. Versus 400,000 playing high school tennis...pretty much says it all.

[carvalhoc]

Tennis will grow when we make it available for everyone. The way is set up now, the system depends on the rich kids to support itself. It is an elitist sport. The few exceptions that exist is a testimony to what would happen if the system would change.

[nickw]

I'd imagine so, as he's currently ranked in the 300's, but the guy has over $2.2Million in prize money, so he can probably afford it

[stotty]

From News Feed: Ruben Ramirez-Hidalgo is 38 but said after reaching the final of the Samarkand challenger today, he’s still as eager as ever to win. “I’m playing in Samarkand with the same enthusiasm as if I was playing the ATP World Tour Masters 1000 event in Rome. I still love to play and compete, so if I can’t do it in Rome, I’ll look to do it wherever I can. I’m fortunate to still be able to pursue the game that has always been my first love.” The Spaniard is also closing in on another record this year. He is just nine match wins away from becoming the first player to win 400 matches on the ATP Challenger Tour. "To reach that number would mean that I spent many years of my life playing the sport I love and can take many good moments that will remain with me."

That's quite an achievement. I just wonder if he has been playing at a financial loss just playing mostly challengers in recent years.

[nickw]

Love of the game!

From News Feed: Ruben Ramirez-Hidalgo is 38 but said after reaching the final of the Samarkand challenger today, he’s still as eager as ever to win. “I’m playing in Samarkand with the same enthusiasm as if I was playing the ATP World Tour Masters 1000 event in Rome. I still love to play and compete, so if I can’t do it in Rome, I’ll look to do it wherever I can. I’m fortunate to still be able to pursue the game that has always been my first love.” The Spaniard is also closing in on another record this year. He is just nine match wins away from becoming the first player to win 400 matches on the ATP Challenger Tour. "To reach that number would mean that I spent many years of my life playing the sport I love and can take many good moments that will remain with me."

[nickw]

The solution?

Hello Stotty

I like the way you’re thinking!! Early Specialization in sport causes more harm than good. Many individuals ( coaches, sport administrators etc) take the adult model of training and practice in sport and impose it on children who are not ready developmentally for a high volume of training. Premature injury, burnout and often kids quitting a sport occurs. I believe in early sport initiation and the specialization can begin when a child really falls in love with the sport and are playing it for themselves. Early sport initiation is really just creating opportunities for youth to play multiple sports, to have fun and develop an athletic base.

Paul Lubbers Ph.D.
Sr. Director of Coaching Education & Performance
USTA Player Development Incorporated

One thing you wrote Paul, really strikes home, the importance of the child really falling in love with the game. It's those kids who are the future champions, and it's far too many of those kids who are never getting the chance to fall in love with the game because it's inaccessible, or not cool in the area they live. Here in the UK, we are still a long way from the sport losing its elitist tag.

But then it comes back to the parents too, and what Stotty said about the kids who have tennis playing parents being far more likely to continue playing through teens and into adulthood, is so true. The kids mimic their parents, their parents like tennis, talk about it, and play it, then so does the kid. But I think the parents playing a role in their child's tennis development, whether they are players or not, is a massive boost to the chances of that kid sticking at it too.

So the simple solution - find the kids who are in love with the game, and then educate their parents about the game, and everything involved in the junior development journey.

I don't have close enough connections to the LTA talent ID system here in the UK to comment firmly on what goes on, but it does appear that they continue to look for skill and athletic ability first, when they should be looking for a love and passion for the game first. Can a 7 year old fall in love with tennis? I think so, even though it's quite rare.

Go into schools, go to inner city areas, give a whole load of kids the chance to fall in love with the game that wouldn't otherwise get it. Understand that the support, understanding, and involvement of the kid's parents will perhaps be the single most important factor on whether the kid sticks at it. So, educate the parents, give them enough information to be able to offer that support and involvement.

The elitist tag that tennis has is a killer, I think both here and in the US. Just look at the recent 'tennis in prison' thread in the forum. ANYONE can fall in love with tennis, and quite honestly, it's the kids who have it tough, who are more likely to develop the incredible fight and determination that is needed to succeed at the higher levels.

[stotty]

Hello Stotty

I like the way you’re thinking!! Early Specialization in sport causes more harm than good. Many individuals ( coaches, sport administrators etc) take the adult model of training and practice in sport and impose it on children who are not ready developmentally for a high volume of training. Premature injury, burnout and often kids quitting a sport occurs. I believe in early sport initiation and the specialization can begin when a child really falls in love with the sport and are playing it for themselves. Early sport initiation is really just creating opportunities for youth to play multiple sports, to have fun and develop an athletic base.

Paul Lubbers Ph.D.
Sr. Director of Coaching Education & Performance
USTA Player Development Incorporated

The problem is even the fun stuff starts too early. For every hundred reds that start aged four or five, only a small percentage make it to mini orange. And I am talking about all levels of ability from recreational to development to performance. Dropout is widespread in all three. This is mirrored up and down the UK, and across the pond in the US as far as I can make out.

The data to support this at my club is significant, concrete and irrefutable. I have experimented with many types of coach to combat dropout in the hope that coaches with wacky characters might appeal to young kids. No luck. The dropout figure always remains the same.

One type can succeed and the evidence is strong:

Children who come from tennis playing parents tend to keep playing throughout childhood and beyond. Parents from this scenario often play a part in development in terms of coaching and, crucially, can quit the moment they feel their child has had enough or become bored. This is a critical factor.

Non-playing parents pay for lessons, which often means the child MUST go to his lesson whether he wants to or not. Big mistake. Once a small child perceives tennis as something they HAVE to do, it kills it.

[bottle]

Wonderful idea. I'm sure there's something in it.

[nickw]

The LTA have done away with the third set in many events and implemented a ten-point tiebreak to replace it. They are also likely to make it mandatory that singles events are played over a couple of days. This winter season they implemented fast four events, which are diabolically quick, to make events run even quicker. All these adaptions have been to appease the parents who don't want too much hanging around. Building a tennis player would seem to be secondary by all accounts.

It's all a load of cobblers. The game is being diluted to a ridiculous degree. Tennis is mirroring life. No one wants to wait for anything these days. They want it now...right now. The game is in trouble.

The odd thing is the children don't seem to mind long days. Many would play all day and come the next to play all day again. The problem is the parents.

Great stuff Stotty, I agree with all you've wrote about the issues here in the UK with retaining junior players, and the junior tournament structure. For me, the problem really is with the parents.

Mom and Dad don't have time anymore. They probably aren't even together. It's easier to give the kid some kind of electronic device to amuse himself. It sure beats trying to hold up some kind of disciplined regimen. Discipline is cruel anyways isn't it…politically correctly speaking.

Nail on head right here from don_budge, this is the way we are going. How the hell is the kid going to learn and understand the incredible discipline, commitment, dedication, and sacrifice that is needed to become a high level tennis player, if the parents show them absolutely none of that in the way they act, behave and live their lives? Kids mimic their parents, that's what happens at a young age whether they like it or not.

The following are all true stories from this year, from tournaments I run at my venue (they are lower level Grade 5 events, but still attract players (or parents) with big ambitions in tennis.

1. Parent using repeated swear words in telling player all the things they did wrong after losing a match (the player was 9 yrs old).

2. Parent audibly calling the lines from outside the court, in an attempt to get their player to call 'out'. 2 instances of this happened recently, one of which saw the player actually say back to the Dad 'No Dad, that ball was in!' Poor kid

3. This one from last year, parent reducing player's opponent (U12's level) to tears by cheering their mistakes, and then when the opponent's Mum complained to that parent, the idiot parent's parting words were 'your son will never make it to Wimbledon'!

On the flip side, I've run many tournaments that have passed without incident, and refreshingly, I had one parent at a recent U10's team tennis match (his daughter had battled so well, but lost both singles and doubles in deciding tie-breaks to our players), make a point of coming up to me before leaving (and in front of his wife and daughter), and thanking me for our team's hospitality, and congratulating us on the win. His behavior from the sidelines was impeccable all day. I couldn't help but think his daughter might be an exceptionally good tennis player one day.

[paullubbers]

Hello Stotty

I like the way you’re thinking!! Early Specialization in sport causes more harm than good. Many individuals ( coaches, sport administrators etc) take the adult model of training and practice in sport and impose it on children who are not ready developmentally for a high volume of training. Premature injury, burnout and often kids quitting a sport occurs. I believe in early sport initiation and the specialization can begin when a child really falls in love with the sport and are playing it for themselves. Early sport initiation is really just creating opportunities for youth to play multiple sports, to have fun and develop an athletic base.

Paul Lubbers Ph.D.
Sr. Director of Coaching Education & Performance
USTA Player Development Incorporated

[don_budge]

Beyond "The Tennis Baby Syndrome"...

Re-engineer. We need a program that infiltrates the school systems. Athletes that are excelling in other sports should be also introduced to tennis. Stotty suggests the age of nine instead of four or five. I'm going one step further…let's recruit independent of age.

It only takes one year to learn how to play the game…five years to be a player. Ten to make a champion. They don't all have to be champions…but we need numbers. We not only need numbers…we need players. You can take a 12 year old in one year and he is playing the game. The twelve year old has hopefully received a lot of sports training in other sports and comes to tennis with a lot of skills that won't have to taught from scratch as they will with a child. That same twelve year old will come to tennis with some success in other endeavours and will not be so daunted in playing a sport that is entirely individual. A twelve year old is developed enough physically, emotionally and intellectually to realize what he has gotten himself into. He comes to practice on his own volition. A seven year old is not…neither are most ten year olds for that matter.

The kiddie program is fine but it's only looking for a needle in a haystack...why neglect harvesting the rest of the field. Look at the tennis being played today. It is stunted in the junior game. It is literally retarded. Toddlers have an inkling of success in their baby tennis and have a difficult time giving up the two hand backhand because it is like taking away their favorite security blanket.

John's comments about the junior high tennis…which morphs into high school tennis…which morphs into college tennis is the most logical, economical and sane logistical approach. Remember when tennis players used to join the army? Whole Davis Cup squads were made up of military members.

[don_budge]

The Tennis Baby Syndrome...

Tilden said…"it takes one year to learn to play the game, five years to be a tennis player and ten years to make a champion". Do the math…you are absolutely correct and then some.

Banking on babies to save the day? Pure and utter nonsense.

It's all a load of cobblers. The game is being diluted to a ridiculous degree. Tennis is mirroring life. No one wants to wait for anything these days. They want it now...right now. The game is in trouble.

The problem is the parents.

Hammer…hit head. You've got it in a nutshell. Scary Stotty…he's sounding a bit like me.

The game is dumbed down. Tennis is metaphoring life. WE are in real trouble. The brain trust has it ass backwards as usual. Or they know how messed up it is and just try to keep it on life support.

Here comes the post Roger Federer culmination point…any guesses about what happens next?

Suggestion…not that anybody is listening to me. Re-engineer. Social engineering. Here's a clue for you all…it has been designed to fail. Engineered to devolve. The only thing evolving these days is AI (artificial intelligence).

Let's begin by teaching children to play. I can only imagine what they are teaching them in school these days. Not much I would hazard a guess. Teach them to play. Spend a couple of hours every day in their favorite physical activities. Keep them moving.

The dumbing down process has taken a number of decades. To reverse the trend will take a number of decades. Hell…even making the decision to reverse the trend will take forever.

Very few kids these days want to be players. Take a ton of player driven passion firstly, family and community to make it happen.

Tennis was traditionally a family affair. The family has been destroyed…gay marriage and the LBGT agenda are some indicators to measure by. Television shows like "Modern Family", "I am Cait", "Two and a Half Men". That's the fact…families have been destroyed. Look at divorce statistics. Look at relationships between men and women. All in the dust bin. The mulch pile of traditional behavior. It used to be that we as children took up the game because mom and dad did. Big brother or big sister started playing. We were just mimicking what they did.

Mom and Dad don't have time anymore. They probably aren't even together. It's easier to give the kid some kind of electronic device to amuse himself. It sure beats trying to hold up some kind of disciplined regimen. Discipline is cruel anyways isn't it…politically correctly speaking.

Toxic tournament environments? By it's very nature it is dog eat dog. You have to be old enough, tough enough and secure enough to manage that process. Cheating? Welcome to the game sonny. The game of life. Little children simply don't have the bones for that. They are too young to be told the facts of life. Tennis is like that and you cannot dress it up otherwise…there is a winner and a loser. Human nature dictates the rest of it.

John's old American model of the junior high school days evolved into high school days and then even college days. Progressive pressures. Structured tournament play during the summers. Whatever happened to all of that? It's a strange game…it requires you to accept total responsibility for what is happening on your court…on your side of the court. That is some tough stuff…it always has been. It ain't for veal calves.

I went to a Platform Tennis Seminar recently here in Sweden. It's all about this sort of thing…tennis for kids. I asked the question…the 60,000 dollar question. How many kids that begin playing mini-tennis are still playing at 15 years old? Statistically? There was no answer. Strange…I would have thought that would be one of the first questions that would be answered. Silly me.

[stotty]

Message for Paul Lubbers

Paul,

I have written a couple of posts already in this thread. I am from the UK but we are having identical problems to yourselves.

I have a question for you:

I feel kids start too young. Wouldn't it be better to start kids aged eight or nine? Children age 4-7 I feel perceive tennis as a game (like hide and seek) and not a sport. A child approaching nine can start to see tennis not only as a game but also as a sport, and be captivated by it.

All sports are competing for athletes. Each sport has devised ways to attract children at the youngest possible age. But are they all just slitting their own throats? Is it not simply a self-defeating strategy? I think it is. The burnout of kids in our sport is huge. Are they not starting too early?