Son's Forehand

[stotty]

Looks better but would be nice to see a slow motion clip that I work through. Real time clips are tricky because you can only toggle through the clips in chunks. I can't see if he achieves a full hand rotation...certainly better than it was.

[postpre]

Thanks for your feedback, Stotty.

I do agree that his ESR to ISR is not Raonic-esque :-). He's hasn't been serving much of late so the one's I do capture aren't when he's necessarily fully warmed up. I'm posting a very short clip of another serve where it should be easier to see some of the finer details (it's a very small download). If you are able, let me know if you still see a significant problem. IMG_4633 2.MOV

[stotty]

He hit some serves today. We are in Iowa so we can still get out a bit. From what I can tell, his ESR to ISR improved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FoCzcUBoOg

I managed to toggle slowly through the clip to take a closer look. His ISR isn't great. He's doesn't appear to have correct serving grip...looks like he's on a very mild forehand grip. It's tougher to get ISR when the grip is erring towards a forehand. I'd adjust his grip. At this late stage - his swing path is probably wired in by now - you might need to use staged progression to cultivate really good ISR. It isn't that difficult if you're both patient, and the rewards will be great.

[jeffreycounts]

I just looked at it in slow motion. You're right definitely improved. He's getting more inside out whip at the top followed by a very nice pronation.. I think we should do a pro comparison and see if there is anything that stands out, but he's got a very good serve there.

[postpre]

He hit some serves today. We are in Iowa so we can still get out a bit. From what I can tell, his ESR to ISR improved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FoCzcUBoOg

[postpre]

Looked a bit closer at the video where he was lacking ISR. The last two serves didn't look quite as bad as the initial screenshot. When he gets an appropriate leg drive (not falling too much to the left), his ISR seems better, though I agree that his ESR swing needs work.

[postpre]

Great feedback. Much appreciated. Would you say it is, at the core, an external shoulder rotation issue? ("A significant amount of external shoulder rotation, well beyond the norm, is critical, because it determines how much force the internal shoulder rotation can supply to accelerate the racket to impact.")

I've been looking back at some of his older serves (see the links below), and it doesn't appear the problem was so pronounced, albeit he had a different stance and tossing arm alignment (which I thought was necessary to change :-)

https://vimeo.com/401945820

https://vimeo.com/401924077

[jeffreycounts]

Absolutely love of his forehand. For the serve, has very good elements, but one thing that will kill his ability is the way his arm doesn't internally rotate properly from the shoulder. You simply HAVE to fix this because it will rob him of a ton of power and will make a kick serve virtually impossible. He will never have a reliable big serve if you guys don't fix this biomechanical flaw. Read the article Chas wrote about this, along with Brian Gordon's serve articles.

caleb.jpg

[postpre]

Also, he switched back to the platform for his serve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbrvTf7XiJQ&feature=youtu.be

[postpre]

Glad to be back on the forum. Hope everyone is well. Over the last year my son has made some adjustments to his forehand (with the help of some suggestions on this thread). This short video shows his current form. He is 15, 9th grader in high school.

https://vimeo.com/399286076

[bottle]

The foot balance is incredible as his timing for contact (and I assume ball location) to extend and reach upward is perfect. Jumping Analogy- ——“as though he was balancing and timing his jump to reach up and swat a bug with the racket, high against a Basketball backboard, a few feet away inside the baseline”. Judging by the height of his feet at contact, he seems to be reaching and making contact pretty high. Is the analogy helpful or hurtful to a coach for analyzing a player’s upward jump? If analogy is accurate, it could be helpful in determining a feel for stance width and amount of drive by either foot. If the analogy is helpful to the coach( a big if), would one verbalize the analogy to the player or is that too restrictive and confining to the player’s natural style of development? Perhaps as JY recommends, just show the visuals and limit the verbal explanations and analogies. Diagnosing a skill is difficult, but the psychology and communication skills needed for the intervention is much tougher.....where the analyst and coach meet!

I can't believe that one size fits all. Think Vic Braden was right to evaluate how a player learns through interview and try to proceed from there. Dancers understand that some persons learn better from words than from visual example or from both so why can't tennis players? In the one master dance class I ever witnessed, at the North Carolina School of the Arts, taught by a dude from the New York City Ballet, he the teacher described about ten steps, demonstrating each as he went along. That seemed to cover at least two bases (visual and verbal). The amazing thing was that the students, about 15 of them as I recall, were able not only to recall each step but do it, so the teaching method must have been effective at least for great students.

I'm for active learners. I think it's too easy for a teacher in any field to dumb down his students. Too much of that and they'll burn out when they have to deal with something on their own or in some other way not ever reach their potential.

[doctorhl]

The foot balance is incredible as his timing for contact (and I assume ball location) to extend and reach upward is perfect. Jumping Analogy- ——“as though he was balancing and timing his jump to reach up and swat a bug with the racket, high against a Basketball backboard, a few feet away inside the baseline”. Judging by the height of his feet at contact, he seems to be reaching and making contact pretty high. Is the analogy helpful or hurtful to a coach for analyzing a player’s upward jump? If analogy is accurate, it could be helpful in determining a feel for stance width and amount of drive by either foot. If the analogy is helpful to the coach( a big if), would one verbalize the analogy to the player or is that too restrictive and confining to the player’s natural style of development? Perhaps as JY recommends, just show the visuals and limit the verbal explanations and analogies. Diagnosing a skill is difficult, but the psychology and communication skills needed for the intervention is much tougher.....where the analyst and coach meet!

[stotty]

I agree. This video (a beautiful clip) shows very well how Roger pushes with his back leg, going not forward but up.

It is...beautiful that is. And if you look carefully at both feet as he drives up, he is pushing up first with the rear foot, not the front.

It's amazing that two of the greatest shots of all time belong to one bloke. Possessing one would seem amazing enough, possessing two is outrageous.

[lovati4]

I agree. This video (a beautiful clip) shows very well how Roger pushes with his back leg, going not forward but up.

[bottle]

Too bad it's not the son writing in.