Shoulder rotation and getting to trophy position

[glacierguy]

Which brings me to my second point on a more personal level. The most interesting thing about what you call your obsession with the service motion is that few players get to this level of nit pick. Most will settle on anything and it all comes out looking homemade in the end. But you are determined by hell or high water to have the look of a classic service motion which speaks to your reverence not only desire for an effective motion but one that is aesthetically pleasing to the eye because you know that they are one and the same. A serve without kinks is one that flows with free energy. Perfect service motions beg for such attention.

Thanks don_budge, I am driven to improve my serve. I'm lucky to have the time, and lack of daily competition, to focus on serve. Lots of people come up to me when I'm practising and say "I should do that", but they never do! Even at the point I have reached now, the motion is so reliable - just wind it up and let it go. I totally agree with your observation that an effective motion and an aesthetically pleasing motion are one and the same. I would only add in brackets, that it's also a motion which reduces the risk of injury. I'm not there yet, but like you and your golf game, I've seen the payback from hard work, so I'm prepared to work more.

[don_budge]

Had to laugh at this don_budge. When I'm not on Skye, I'm in St Andrews! My next door neighbour is Peter Dawson, the ex-CEO of the Royal & Ancient, I'm sure he could hook me up. On Sundays we walk over the old course to get to the beach. Despite this, I have so far resisted the lure of golf, but you never know...

Interesting photos of the serve...along with the question and the "fixes". Most importantly you are leaning into the court and going after the ball. Whether you are tilted to this degree or that degree is of little consequence now as you will figure out where the point of perfect equilibrium will be with each variation of your serve. It seems to me that the toss of the ball is going to determine this to a large extent and the type of serve is going to determine where you toss the ball. So it is a question of ball position.

Which brings me to my second point on a more personal level. The most interesting thing about what you call your obsession with the service motion is that few players get to this level of nit pick. Most will settle on anything and it all comes out looking homemade in the end. But you are determined by hell or high water to have the look of a classic service motion which speaks to your reverence not only desire for an effective motion but one that is aesthetically pleasing to the eye because you know that they are one and the same. A serve without kinks is one that flows with free energy. Perfect service motions beg for such attention.

So that tells me that you are a prime candidate for the game of golf and I must urgently suggest to you to do it now. At your age you have enough time to dream of mastering the second of God's gift to mankind in terms of recreation. Your personality revealed in your quest of improving an already pretty good motion to iron out the little kinks and blemishes is indicative of the type of mind and body it takes to play the game of golf. The only question is one of time and inclination. Once you get started there is no turning back. All of your abilities that you have worked so hard on in tennis will virtually cut your learning curve in half. Some very wise man I know once said..."tennis is golf on the run".

Ideally you can divide the year into golf and tennis season if you are so compelled to continue with tennis. I virtually saturated myself with tennis to the point where is was "been there, done that". My only reason for rekindling this interests was a desire to eat. It paid for the food. But as I grow older...as I grew older I knew early on that the level of my game was not going anywhere without paying a huge price physically and as I said...I had already done that. Golf is a game that you can play well into your advanced years. I have surprised myself where I have gotten myself to at my age and I still believe I have a lot of potential to mine. Room for improvement. It will be a question of stamina and fitness.

St. Andrews? The Mecca of golf? Are you kidding me? If that is not a sign then I'm not certain that I have ever seen one. Trust me...I see signs. Go directly to the golf course and get started. You can thank me later. Serving hard? Driving long. Dink shots? Chips and putts around the green. I think your are ready glacierguy...to be reborn. Another incarnation. Another life.

[glacierguy]

Any good courses in your area?

Had to laugh at this don_budge. When I'm not on Skye, I'm in St Andrews! My next door neighbour is Peter Dawson, the ex-CEO of the Royal & Ancient, I'm sure he could hook me up. On Sundays we walk over the old course to get to the beach. Despite this, I have so far resisted the lure of golf, but you never know...

[don_budge]

Working on this thing is fun and frustrating at the same time.

While you are young try to play golf. You like fun and frustrating...a perfect specimen. The tennis background will cut the learning curve in half. Any good courses in your area? Take my advice. After all...I am never wrong. Nor right for that matter.

[glacierguy]

Well, I tried, on a rather gloomy, cool day, to toss more left. Here are a couple of contact stills. I think I've managed to change the racquet angle a few degrees. On a handful of serves that weren't filmed I felt good, and will continue to strive for that feeling. Thanks for the encouragement. Now I'm going to ice my elbow whilst watching Andy Murray.

[glacierguy]

Thanks John, got it. I'm out this afternoon and will try to adjust... Working on this thing is fun and frustrating at the same time.

[johnyandell]

Racket is too vertical. Toss should be a bit more to left so racket is angled a little more to the left.

[glacierguy]

Here’s a still from a video taken this morning. It's the frame in which the ball pancakes at contact. Should my arm be more vertical? I think my arm to trunk angle looks OK, so if "yes", does that mean that my trunk should be leaning more to the left? I think my arm to racquet angle is OK, but should whole body unit be 10-15 degrees over to left? I'd be happy to receive some advice. (It was a beautiful morning in Fife.)

[glacierguy]

Thanks don_budge. I remember you telling me to "go after it" a bit more, and toss in front. You were right. I think through watching lots of slow-motion video of the top guys I had sort of missed that final explosion and was being a bit pedestrian. That's why I included the real-time video as well as slow-motion. I didn't like the toss in my video either - too high!

The water in the background is Loch Slapin on Skye (it's the sea, but a sea loch, which is just a narrow body of water, a bit like a fjord).

Practising on the lawn has been pretty good. You can't bounce the ball, and you can't see how your serve bounces off the court, but when I did get back on a tennis court a few weeks ago, I hit my first dozen serves straight into the corner of the ad box.

I am back to civilisation (and tennis courts) in a couple of weeks and we'll see how the serve stands up. I think I have now felt what I want to be doing on a few occasions, and will strive to get that feeling more often! Thanks for your encouragement. (I have been reading your golf progress with interest, but am largely clueless on that subject.)

[don_budge]

don_budge, you are right - I am fascinated by the serve. Here are two videos of my current effort, a real-time and a 1/8th slow motion. It's on my lawn, and I'm simulating a serve from the ad side. My left foot is parallel with the imaginary baseline. The camera is a few feet inside the baseline to capture the separation between racquet and trunk during the drop. This serve was about 95mph on the Pocket Radar (I've been protecting a slight elbow niggle).

Extremely good. It looks as if you have addressed everything I pointed out to you. I like that you are doing this without a tennis court. It's another dimension of serving. I get the impression that you are aggressively going after the ball and the motion looks to be free of any friction. The toss looks to be a tad high for my taste but it isn't a deal breaker. Nice yard by the way...spectacular view. What is the body of water in the background?

[glacierguy]

Here's the slow motion:

[glacierguy]

don_budge, you are right - I am fascinated by the serve. Here are two videos of my current effort, a real-time and a 1/8th slow motion. It's on my lawn, and I'm simulating a serve from the ad side. My left foot is parallel with the imaginary baseline. The camera is a few feet inside the baseline to capture the separation between racquet and trunk during the drop. This serve was about 95mph on the Pocket Radar (I've been protecting a slight elbow niggle).

[don_budge]

Some might refer to it as obsession but I prefer to think of it as "fascination". I get your drift glacierguy. What a great thing to ponder in a lockdown situation. This type of mental activity keeps you from going bonkers. Mental gymnastics. The photo looks as if you are getting all of your ducks in a row...all of your vectors lined up. I have a good feeling about the video from what you've said.

[glacierguy]

Thanks - I agree, a video is required! But in the meantime, and to demonstrate my sad obsession, here is a still in which I was looking at angles... Also that's my lockdown setup, serving down the lawn into a children's football goal.

[don_budge]

BTW, the reason I posted the above is not to claim how great my serve is (it isn't), but to share my experience that small changes to a serve action that seemed OK and in many ways already included all the elements that we read about on TennisPlayer can make big differences. The information is there in the serve articles on the site, but sometimes the one gem your particular serve needs is only a sentence or two, and easy to overlook. So keep reading and keep experimenting. Once I get back to competition, I don't think I'll be able to play around as much as I have these last few months.

Thanks for sharing. One of the more interesting aspects of this forum is sharing personal experiences. Some like to keep it on the straight and narrow and that's fine too. But I am always curious about the process and how others experience it. I think that it is high time for some video glacierguy. Things have been rather slow on the forum lately.