Shoulder rotation and getting to trophy position

[don_budge]

Golf in the Kingdom...Michael Murphy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJOa90u_VY

"I say fuck it to ever getting better"...Shivas Irons.

"Part of golf is it strips away our defences against spirit. I think that is the greatest influence of "Golf in the Kingdom" has had to awaken in people, an awful lot of people, the mysticism of everyday life"...Micheal Murphy.

""Golf in the Kingdom" is about radical transformation. Not only of consciousness but all of human nature. If you think that have gotten into a kind of zone...and then there's another zone. It's deep. See and that's part of what "Golf in the Kingdom" is about the secret and greatness that all of us have. If we apply ourselves. It's available always. It's there waiting for us.

"Tennis is golf on the run"...don_budge.

"Golf and tennis are God's gift to mankind in terms of recreation."...don_budge

[don_budge]

The Isle of Skye...glacierguy

Dear don_budge, first, apologies for not replying sooner, I am back on the Isle of Skye with the cows and comms are limited. Second, I am humbled and delighted that you found some inspiration in my last post. I am glad that you prompted me to share my experience. And I shall tell my sister that her recommendations are spreading around the tennis community! For my part, I have been inspired by tennisplayer.net, this forum, and your posts.

The university gym I attend has all sorts of members, exercising away in their own bubbles, oblivious to their surroundings. After one or two visits I'm pretty sure you will be invisible like everyone else, and able to focus on your regime.

One thing I would add about my own circumstances, after several weeks of fairly high intensity tennis and gym work, I take breaks back on Skye where I won't (can't) play tennis for 2 or 3 weeks. At my age, I think that helps my body recover from the niggles and aches that inevitably accrue. Just a thought.

And as OP of this thread I declare that it can be taken wherever anyone wants it to go!!

You take breaks on Skye? That's like me saying that I take breaks at Lilla Vickebråten. Fantastic. I never knew a guy who takes breaks on Skye. I did a bit of research on Skye. What does a guy do when he is taking a break on Skye...recuperating from physical exhaustion? Very, very interesting.

But thanks for the comeback post. Sometimes it is better to space out the replies here on the forum to give the previous post some air. Yours is perfectly timed as well. Yesterday I took the first step which in the words of the personal trainer was a "HUGE". She is half Thai and half Swedish as she put it. I was smiling as she came to the reception area to take me to the office for the interview. She must be about 5' 3" tall and me at 6' 1". An amusing sight I thought. Cute too. Real cute. I was so happy not to get the pedigree Swede. The modern Swedish woman has a pretty hard edge to her these days. Years of feminist indoctrination. Mona put me through a battery of tests to get a gage on where I am at. I asked her when we were through where I was on a scale of one to ten and she said six. I said more like three. Looking forwards to the torture.

The interview was a beautiful thing. I told her my story and what I wanted to do and she assured me that it was entirely possible. Of course it depends upon me and my willingness to work. I told a partner out on the golf course the other day...I out work people. Now it will be put up or shut up time and I am just itching for a fight. Really lit if you catch my drift. Sunday is going to be the day where she unveils Phase I for me which will be about a six to eight week program. She seems very kind but I get a sense of toughness from her too. An interesting combo of traits. You have to be cruel to be kind? She told me her mother went barefoot in Thailand as a child. Maybe later in life. Who knows? She was having me do the exercises in my socks. A good idea. She said her mother said that people are spoiled. I said people cheat. I get the feeling she is a good trainer. A very good trainer.

Great to hear from the Isle of Skye. Now I am curious what goes on there. Are the people for "stay" or "leave"? Yeah...I am all about taking divergent paths once threads have run a certain course. Once you leave the path it always possible to return. We did talk about my shoulder. Originally the title was shoulder rotation. That video is an incredible video about the role of the shoulders in golf. In the swing. Which at times I have compared to an upside down service motion. In the video the instructor is emphatically saying...Down! Down! Down! Isn't that similar to the shoulders in the forehand. That "pat the dog" is that downward motion. Conversely the service shoulder rotation is one of upwards...thus the upside down effect.

doctorhi...did you get that? This downward shoulder emphasis is going to get those hips moving in the golf swing without having to think "hips". I have always had a difficult time telling the hips what to do. They must do it from other sources than thinking about it. This video gets the whole darn thing in sync. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB1velb0EqU

glacierguy...no golf? Any golf courses on the Isle of Skye? My favourite golf book is "Golf in the Kingdom". Scottish lore I am sure. The professional in the book is Shivas Irons. A very mysterious man. The metaphysics of golf....thus the golf in the kingdom. A must read...for all tennis players. Thanks again glacierguy! Tremendous stuff.

[glacierguy]

Dear don_budge, first, apologies for not replying sooner, I am back on the Isle of Skye with the cows and comms are limited. Second, I am humbled and delighted that you found some inspiration in my last post. I am glad that you prompted me to share my experience. And I shall tell my sister that her recommendations are spreading around the tennis community! For my part, I have been inspired by tennisplayer.net, this forum, and your posts.

The university gym I attend has all sorts of members, exercising away in their own bubbles, oblivious to their surroundings. After one or two visits I'm pretty sure you will be invisible like everyone else, and able to focus on your regime.

One thing I would add about my own circumstances, after several weeks of fairly high intensity tennis and gym work, I take breaks back on Skye where I won't (can't) play tennis for 2 or 3 weeks. At my age, I think that helps my body recover from the niggles and aches that inevitably accrue. Just a thought.

And as OP of this thread I declare that it can be taken wherever anyone wants it to go!!

[don_budge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB1velb0EqU

I can just feel a couple of heads exploding as it may appear to the untrained eye that this thread got a little off-thread. But the interesting thing about this video that I posted in the role of the shoulder in driving the clubhead down is it may have some relevance to the forehand. I am no expert in technical terms but this fellow "Stephen" talks about the need for more downward motion of the right shoulder as opposed to "external rotation" of the shoulder. This is absolutely a white light video of inspiration when it comes to perhaps the most important fundamental move to initiate the swing in a golf swing. I'm wondering if this might just be an element of the tennis forehand as well.

[don_budge]

I have an appointment in three days with a personal trainer and I can't tell you how excited I am. Thanks again and keep swinging! Using everything I can to get inspired. glacierguy did me a super solid.

Also would like to mention I am using Phil's (aka gzhpcu) experience as well for motivation. His attitude going forwards into the teeth of the lion has been inspirational and best wishes going forwards with the rehab. I am imagining that I am going forwards into "prehab"...as in prevention of injury. As well as enhancing performance and holding off Father Time. I will summon everything I can in this effort as it is not something that I am predisposed to do. In the past I haven't really liked to do this kind of training but you know what? You can change. You have free choice. The mind is a powerful muscle.

[don_budge]

Excellent doctorhi. Thanks for your thoughts and taking an interest. You validate the mission that I have accepted. Sorry to hear about your hip and I think that the replacement is going to work out good for you.

I have an appointment in three days with a personal trainer and I can't tell you how excited I am. Thanks again and keep swinging! Using everything I can to get inspired. glacierguy did me a super solid.

Here's a great drill...can you see any tennis parallels here. This drill finally kicked in on my swing today. It fundamentally changed things for me. It was a piece of the puzzle that I have been looking for for a long, long time. You can see how a solid core could be a great asset in a move like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB1velb0EqU

[doctorhl]

Don, I sent you a private message about core and golf stuff. Would like your thoughts,

[don_budge]

Dear don_budge, I am 56 years old and tickled that you are interested in my history and routine. First off I am attaching here my set of core exercises... [ATTACH]n82674[/ATTACH]

That seemed to work, so here we go. My potted history is as follows. I played a lot of tennis from before I can really remember (8?) until I was about 21. Nothing too stellar, UK county standard (but a good county, Warwickshire) and university 1st team, until I had a bad tear in my pec. major whilst serving on a cold winter morning. I never really recovered from that and then my working life started and I didn't play for 30 years or so. My motivation for picking up a racket again was when we moved town for my two children's secondary (high school) education, and I found myself next to some tennis courts and thought that I should really show them how to hit a ball. So although that was my motivation, I now find that my old addiction has kicked in, and I am totally obsessed with tennis again.

During my 30 year hiatus from tennis I took up rowing, which was not so good for my back. To the extent that by age 50 I was incapacitated about twice a year by back pain, which would last a couple of weeks before resolving itself. I never had the cause diagnosed, but suspected what used to be called "slipped disk". Anyhow, when I restarted tennis this back weakness was hampering my progress. Fortunately I have a sister who is not only a serious sportswoman, but a retired vet who retrained as a physiotherapist for her oxymoronic "retirement job". It was she who recommended the set of core exercises attached above. Now, if you have a look at that set of exercises, or try them, you will see that it takes about 60-80 minutes and is quite tough. It took me about 6 weeks to be able to complete the full set. Well, you might also notice that the title says "early phase" - this is the easy set! There are mid-phase and late-phase too which are entirely mental, designed for olympians. I stick to early-phase and have been doing them at least twice a week for 18 months now. The results are two fillets of beef alongside my lower spine, pretty strong stomach muscles and no recurrence of back pain for the last 12 months (touchwood).

As for my condition when I started my comeback, I was fit, but in a farmer's way - I could do heavy work for long hours, like a donkey. I kept cows and did a lot of agricultural work, like fencing. But when I started those core exercises I found serious weaknesses, for example, I could not do a side plank to save my life. So, I keep going, and have added shoulder and chest exercises now I'm trying to recover my serve. Although I don't really think it is my old serve any more - it's a hybrid combining some of my old skills with some of the gems picked up from reading articles on this site. It's over the ton now, and I'm aiming to stop pushing at 110, if something doesn't bust first.

Thanks for your interest.

Thank YOU glacierguy. I have to say that of all of my 5,338 (now 5,339) posts this may be the best reply I have ever received. I really would like to express my appreciation. Not only is your "story" rather enlightening it is inspiring. The report on the actual exercises was equally important to me. The whole thing suits me in my story that it personally gives me further motivation to "double down" on my extraordinary efforts to resurrect my golf game and to not only return to my prior form but to smash that barrier. At my age! Thank you very, very much.

It's so important to seek others experiences and opinions when trying to embark on a journey of your own. In my case I am going to enter the gym this winter with the sole express purpose to improve the condition of my body so that I can perform to my utmost potential. I have never used a gym consistently before and I find the prospect a little daunting...just a tad scary. Can I do this I ask myself? Am I too old? The doubts lurking just beneath the surface of my unbridled passion to go for the "impossible dream". I swear I just should have called myself don_quixote. I suppose that "Quixotic" nature is in all of us. We pursue our dreams. Fantasies.

But you have taken a dream and made it real and I commend you Sir. That takes real balls to take the first step and follow through. I like the "fit in a farmer's way" analogy. Long hours like a donkey. In my case "like a horse". We have horses here in Sweden. Check me out here. What the heck...friend me if you want. stroke did.

https://www.facebook.com/don.budge.313

But to be honest most of my work these days is done on the golf course. Up to three to four hours a day...every single day weather permitting. I figure by doing to sort of routine that you have done that it will enable me to work even harder. I told a guy the other day on the course...he noted the improvement in my game over the course of the summer...I said, "I outwork other people, that is what I do." I am sure the members at the club are asking themselves what is that crazy American think he's doing? Well I intend to show them.

Thanks again glacierguy. You can be certain that if you post any serve or any other stroke that I will be dead earnest in giving whatever advice I can. Nobody knows more about the service motion than I do. After all...have you ever heard anybody analyse the serve as an upside down golf swing. Instead of teeing it on the ground...we tee it up in the air. Of course getting that ball properly teed is half of the battle. Thanks again...Brother!

[stotty]

Dear don_budge, I am 56 years old and tickled that you are interested in my history and routine. First off I am attaching here my set of core exercises... [ATTACH]n82674[/ATTACH]

Snap, I am a 56-year-old from Essex. Good on you, glacierguy. Essex finished 2nd in group 1 county week for the third successive year. Just can't quite nail the top spot. I go to Eastbourne most years to lend support. I'll just have to cheer even harder next year.

[glacierguy]

That seemed to work, so here we go. My potted history is as follows. I played a lot of tennis from before I can really remember (8?) until I was about 21. Nothing too stellar, UK county standard (but a good county, Warwickshire) and university 1st team, until I had a bad tear in my pec. major whilst serving on a cold winter morning. I never really recovered from that and then my working life started and I didn't play for 30 years or so. My motivation for picking up a racket again was when we moved town for my two children's secondary (high school) education, and I found myself next to some tennis courts and thought that I should really show them how to hit a ball. So although that was my motivation, I now find that my old addiction has kicked in, and I am totally obsessed with tennis again.

During my 30 year hiatus from tennis I took up rowing, which was not so good for my back. To the extent that by age 50 I was incapacitated about twice a year by back pain, which would last a couple of weeks before resolving itself. I never had the cause diagnosed, but suspected what used to be called "slipped disk". Anyhow, when I restarted tennis this back weakness was hampering my progress. Fortunately I have a sister who is not only a serious sportswoman, but a retired vet who retrained as a physiotherapist for her oxymoronic "retirement job". It was she who recommended the set of core exercises attached above. Now, if you have a look at that set of exercises, or try them, you will see that it takes about 60-80 minutes and is quite tough. It took me about 6 weeks to be able to complete the full set. Well, you might also notice that the title says "early phase" - this is the easy set! There are mid-phase and late-phase too which are entirely mental, designed for olympians. I stick to early-phase and have been doing them at least twice a week for 18 months now. The results are two fillets of beef alongside my lower spine, pretty strong stomach muscles and no recurrence of back pain for the last 12 months (touchwood).

As for my condition when I started my comeback, I was fit, but in a farmer's way - I could do heavy work for long hours, like a donkey. I kept cows and did a lot of agricultural work, like fencing. But when I started those core exercises I found serious weaknesses, for example, I could not do a side plank to save my life. So, I keep going, and have added shoulder and chest exercises now I'm trying to recover my serve. Although I don't really think it is my old serve any more - it's a hybrid combining some of my old skills with some of the gems picked up from reading articles on this site. It's over the ton now, and I'm aiming to stop pushing at 110, if something doesn't bust first.

Thanks for your interest.

[glacierguy]

Dear don_budge, I am 56 years old and tickled that you are interested in my history and routine. First off I am attaching here my set of core exercises... BackExercises.doc

[don_budge]

Given that I was already doing core stability exercises...

Really curious about this comment glacierguy. Give me an idea about your motivation to start this program and an explanation about the process. How old and what condition were you in when you began this? How long have you been at it and what about the results so far? Thank you.

[doctorhl]

FYI for those of you like me who are inspired by Murray’s incredible comeback and are facing hip surgery. Murray had hip resurfacing. I wanted hip resurfacing, but I had to consult with 4 surgeons before finding one willing to truthfully explain to me how to weigh the risk/benefits/ in resurfacing versus total hip replacement. Many docs in U.S. won’t do resurfacing anymore unless you pay cash. I am currently recovering from a total hip replacement.

[glacierguy]

It sounds like you have recovered from the shoulder issue. Was it an "impinged" shoulder or did you get a diagnosis? I have/had an impinged shoulder and it seems to be somewhat resolving itself. I plan on "entering" a gym this winter for a total body makeover. Should be interesting as I have never really pursued the gym angle. I would surely like to see an update on your video.

I'd pulled my pec. major, but physio. diagnosed nothing really serious and gave me advice on shoulder stability and chest strengthening exercises. Given that I was already doing core stability exercises, I am not kidding when I say that I spend only slightly more time on court compared with time in the gym. As for the serve, I'm hopeful that I have taken that slightly counter-intuitive step of relaxing more to first, generate more racket head speed, and second, to reduce chance of injury. Next time I have serve buddy with me, I shall video....

To continue dual theme, I was really disappointed that Andy Murray failed twice to serve out the match against Fognini, but what a comeback. He must regret rising to the bait of Fognini's gamesmanship. I'm a Brit and live in Scotland, but I'd never really warmed to Andy Murray, until now.

[don_budge]

I haven't forgotten my promise to post video.... Not ready yet, but soon! Trunk rotation sorted, and now totally relaxed arm. Have Pocket Radar, and speeds are getting interesting. Have been serving for an hour, three times a week, and paying attention to the muscle memory thread.

And BTW, respect to Andy Murray for his performance at China Open.

It sounds like you have recovered from the shoulder issue. Was it an "impinged" shoulder or did you get a diagnosis? I have/had an impinged shoulder and it seems to be somewhat resolving itself. I plan on "entering" a gym this winter for a total body makeover. Should be interesting as I have never really pursued the gym angle. I would surely like to see an update on your video.

Andy Murray is to be commended for his comeback effort. He is certainly making inroads. I am curious as to what the whole story has been behind his rehab. Including meds. This is a great source of curiosity for me...meds. Andy is certainly good for the tour. The "Big Three" are rarely at the same tournament at the same time and the typical draws are so watered down with "mediocre" talent the game is suffering for it. When the "Big Four" were all present and accounted for at least there was this angle of interest.