Leylah Fernandez, Type 3 forehand, easier to change direction than Type 2 or Type 1

[arturohernandez]

Like everyone else I have been watching Leylah Fernandez. She seems to take the ball very early on both sides. Her forehand is super compact and yet it appears to catch the opponent by surprise. According to US Open.org they cite the following stats for her against Kerber:

"In total, Fernandez hit 213 forehands in the match, 108 creating the same two patterns of play.

1. The forehand crosscourt (60)

2. The forehand down the line (48)

These two patterns forced Kerber into defense on 43 occasions"

I immediately thought about Macci, BG and the type 3 (or ATP) forehand.

It looks like a Type 3 to me but I wanted to get expert opinions.

Here is a link to her forehand (I am not associated with this company. Just not a lot of links out there.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmbFPM7y3-M

If so, is it the type 3 that makes it easier for her to change direction? My thinking is that the compactness allows her to redirect more easily since the racket is taking a shorter path back and a more linear path forward. In a type 1 or 2 forehand the racket has to come around in a circle and so it makes it harder to change the direction of the ball.

So, two questions, Is it a type 3 and if so, is this the reason she can change direction so well?

I see Henin and Federer in that forehand.

Just wondering.

[doctorhl]

Compact swing sure seems to allow you to take the ball early and therefore create great direction change with less effort and swing time. However, you have to have good footwork and spacing because the strike zone for a core driven, compact swing seems to be a little smaller than the strike zone of a more arm driven loop swing. No proof, just conjecture, so hopefully the experts will weigh in.

[stroke]

She to me definitely has a type 3 forehand with clear independent arm action, which is a key ingredient of the model type 3 forehand. Great form on that shot. Yes Auturo, yes to me, she is a perfect example in the women's game of the advantages of this type 3 model forehand that BG has spelled out quite quantitatively in his presentations.

[seano]

Very interesting question. Leyla does have a compact backswing and hits the ball with a straight arm at contact BUT its her flip or dynamic slot that I would question. The flip should occur with the racquet on the outside of the hand with the hand pulling forward and the external shoulder rotation creating the flip. If you look at the forehands at the :15, :19 & :42 marks, it looks like she lays the wrist back before the forward motion of the racquet. Below is another in the series of Leyla's forehand where she shows a drill to keep her backswing short. Would love more input from others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzzCfLbo3xU

Sean

[stroke]

That an interesting observation Sean. I am not certain either about the type 3 flip parameters on her fh. She certainly does not have the violent flip of Federer or Nadal. One thing I have observed (I think) is when Fed would take on a high fh swinging volley, his fh flip looked less violent, more like what Leyla appears to be doing here. Fed returning serve on fh side maybe another example.

[arturohernandez]

Very interesting question. Leyla does have a compact backswing and hits the ball with a straight arm at contact BUT its her flip or dynamic slot that I would question. The flip should occur with the racquet on the outside of the hand with the hand pulling forward and the external shoulder rotation creating the flip. If you look at the forehands at the :15, :19 & :42 marks, it looks like she lays the wrist back before the forward motion of the racquet. Below is another in the series of Leyla's forehand where she shows a drill to keep her backswing short. Would love more input from others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzzCfLbo3xU

Sean

To go along with Stroke, she seems to have an abbreviated take back but more of a classic preparation and stroke. Federer goes back to a more classic stroke on returns.

It's like an adaptation of old and new to allow her to redirect much more easily and take it on the rise. I still wonder how they would fare against Barty that gives no pace with the backhand. It seems like Barty found another solution around the bashing.

Does anyone know how to poke BG and JY into an opinion?

[jimlosaltos]

To go along with Stroke, she seems to have an abbreviated take back but more of a classic preparation and stroke. Federer goes back to a more classic stroke on returns.

It's like an adaptation of old and new to allow her to redirect much more easily and take it on the rise. I still wonder how they would fare against Barty that gives no pace with the backhand. It seems like Barty found another solution around the bashing.

Does anyone know how to poke BG and JY into an opinion?

For JY, probably post it in the thread of questions for him ?

[tenniscoach1]

Not even close boys - not even close - looks like cookie cutter Chris Everett Lloyd's dad's playbook. Woman's tennis is sure open right now - amazing how so many kids are just coming out of nowhere and succeeding at a high level.

[johnyandell]

What Seano said...

[jthb1021]

It looks too mechanical. Yes straight arm and outside backswing etc, but it looks rigid. No play! Honestly her forehand doesn’t look fun to hit

[johnyandell]

But it was good enough to win 10 matches in straight sets...

[don_budge]

Like everyone else I have been watching Leylah Fernandez. She seems to take the ball very early on both sides. Her forehand is super compact and yet it appears to catch the opponent by surprise. According to US Open.org they cite the following stats for her against Kerber:

"In total, Fernandez hit 213 forehands in the match, 108 creating the same two patterns of play.

1. The forehand crosscourt (60)

2. The forehand down the line (48)

These two patterns forced Kerber into defense on 43 occasions"

I immediately thought about Macci, BG and the type 3 (or ATP) forehand.

It looks like a Type 3 to me but I wanted to get expert opinions.

Here is a link to her forehand (I am not associated with this company. Just not a lot of links out there.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmbFPM7y3-M

If so, is it the type 3 that makes it easier for her to change direction? My thinking is that the compactness allows her to redirect more easily since the racket is taking a shorter path back and a more linear path forward. In a type 1 or 2 forehand the racket has to come around in a circle and so it makes it harder to change the direction of the ball.

So, two questions, Is it a type 3 and if so, is this the reason she can change direction so well?

I see Henin and Federer in that forehand.

Just wondering.

Not buying into the rebellion angle.

https://www.wtatennis.com/players/32...ducanu/matches

But statistically speaking you would have to conclude that Raducanu's win at the 2021 U. S. Open was a rare event. If you look at her match history there is no way that you could have predicted that outcome. I wonder if there was a big payout anywhere. It is so statistically improbable I find it somewhat suspicious...but that is without having watched any of the play. Even so...she never had to play someone ranked in the top ten. What the hell happened to the rest of the field? She played a couple of players in the top twenty but the rest of them were basically outliers.

On the other side of the draw, Leila had to power through the #2, #3, #5 and #17 ranked players. She probably would have rendered Raducanu a non story or at least a story about a runner-up if she hadn't been depleted by the four three set matches in a row.

It will be interesting going forwards to see how Raducanu reacts to her unlikely win at the Open. The attention that is going to be bestowed upon her would make any human dizzy. The media attention. The expectations. Perhaps she will join Osaki in the mental tennis ward. It is going to be a tough act to follow.

Great catch on this thread arturohernandez in mid-tourney. Although I didn't watch a single women's tennis match at the Open this year and I only caught tidbits here and there...your post was rather a premonition considering the final outcome. I think that Leylah was actually a bigger story than this Brit Emma. Leylah had a much tougher road to hoe and her take down of Naomi Osaka was a highlight as far as I am concerned. Osaka should probably be confined to quarters pending psychiatric observation and she is showing some serious symptoms of real mental issues. But this young lady Fernandez was the real heroine as she was taking down the big names while Emma had a bunch of outliers. I wonder how much fatigue played into her performance in the final.

https://www.wtatennis.com/players/326735/leylah-fernandez/matches

[arturohernandez]

Great catch on this thread arturohernandez in mid-tourney. Although I didn't watch a single women's tennis match at the Open this year and I only caught tidbits here and there...your post was rather a premonition considering the final outcome. I think that Leylah was actually a bigger story than this Brit Emma. Leylah had a much tougher road to hoe and her take down of Naomi Osaka was a highlight as far as I am concerned. Osaka should probably be confined to quarters pending psychiatric observation and she is showing some serious symptoms of real mental issues. But this young lady Fernandez was the real heroine as she was taking down the big names while Emma had a bunch of outliers. I wonder how much fatigue played into her performance in the final.

https://www.wtatennis.com/players/326735/leylah-fernandez/matches

I think Emma doesn't have to work as hard to win her points. She is closer to an ideal height in women's tennis. I would put it at somewhere between 5'7" to 5'10". Ideally, 5'9" if we wan't to be very specific. Leylah is not tall at all. She needs to take the ball super early because she cannot be pushed back. Emma has more leeway. She can play offensively and defensively. Leylah has to play offense. There is no choice. I think she has a great chance to win at RG. She did win the junior RG.

Emma made it look easy but honestly I am not sure that anyone could have handled the level she was playing at the US Open.

It reminded me of Sampras in 1990 (?). I mean he was just on fire. He cooled off for a couple of years after that.

It was so odd to see two women playing each other in a final that could have been a junior final just two years ago. The odds were long and someone might have gotten rich off of this one.

I heard from an inside source that Osaka's older sister had to stop for similar reasons. She would just breakdown crying during matches. It was just too painful to play.

It looks like it might run in the family.

[jimlosaltos]

I think Emma doesn't have to work as hard to win her points. She is closer to an ideal height in women's tennis. I would put it at somewhere between 5'7" to 5'10". Ideally, 5'9" if we wan't to be very specific. Leylah is not tall at all. She needs to take the ball super early because she cannot be pushed back. Emma has more leeway. She can play offensively and defensively. Leylah has to play offense. There is no choice. I think she has a great chance to win at RG. She did win the junior RG.

Emma made it look easy but honestly I am not sure that anyone could have handled the level she was playing at the US Open.

It reminded me of Sampras in 1990 (?). I mean he was just on fire. He cooled off for a couple of years after that.

It was so odd to see two women playing each other in a final that could have been a junior final just two years ago. The odds were long and someone might have gotten rich off of this one.

I heard from an inside source that Osaka's older sister had to stop for similar reasons. She would just breakdown crying during matches. It was just too painful to play.

It looks like it might run in the family.

Well put. So much had to happen along the way for these two to meet in the final.

Leylah was like an icebreaker, moving through the top seeds clearing the way, then Emma smoothly sailed into the open seas.

If they didn't both becomes millionaires as teenagers I'd feel a bit sorry for Leylah

It will be interesting to see which sustains this level of play better in the near term.

[arturohernandez]

Well put. So much had to happen along the way for these two to meet in the final.

Leylah was like an icebreaker, moving through the top seeds clearing the way, then Emma smoothly sailed into the open seas.

If they didn't both becomes millionaires as teenagers I'd feel a bit sorry for Leylah

It will be interesting to see which sustains this level of play better in the near term.

It looks like Emma has fallen off and Leylah is keeping her higher level of play. I really hope that the two of them stick around. Ash Barty is the closest we have gotten to a consistent women's player these days. Everyone else seems to come and go. Serena might have one good run left in her.

Not sure if you have any thoughts on the latest play from Emma and Leylah at Indian Wells.