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Jannik Sinner's Great Groundies

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  • Jannik Sinner's Great Groundies

    Finally got to see Italian Jannik Sinner in person back in March at Indian Wells. As usual, seeing top players live gives a much different impression than TV, for me at least. Please check out this month's Tour Portrait for TPN at this link. I'll share a couple of larger images in this post.


    Sinner has really sprouted up in the last couple of years to, I'd guesstimate, 6' 4" and in only the last year does he seem to have "grown into his frame". Only a year ago I heard a European announcer say that "The book is to hit behind Sinner because he doesn't yet have a lot of leg strength, so changing directions is a problem." No more. Sinner was flying all over the court with deceptive speed. Long limbs even for 6'4" and he's also put on muscle.

    He has such "easy power" the sheer velocity on his forehand might not be immediately evident, but the depth is. Although he lost this semifinal at Indian Wells to the eventual champ Carlos Alcaraz you could see that Sinner's depth bothers Carlos in a way I haven't seen many other forehands affect him (and are those two destined to have one of the next, great rivalries? Their H2H is 3-3 with Sinner taking their Wimbledon and Miami meetings, while Carlos won at the US Open and IW} H2H: https://www.atptour.com/en/players/a...nner/a0e2/s0ag

    Photo notes: It was a grey, overcast sprinkling evening. Flat, dark light. Really lousy for photography -- except for moments when the sun set over the stadium edge. Jannik running into the sun creating highlights on his face that make this image.

    Note the bent arm. More on that later.

    filedata/fetch?id=100666&d=1683562186&type=thumb

    For context, 81 MPH as an "average" forehand is quite fast. Basilashvili led the ATP with an ave of 80 MPH a couple of years ago. I believe Matteo Berrettini averaged 90 mph for much of a tough loss to Djokovic at the French a while back.

    filedata/fetch?id=100665&d=1683562244&type=thumb

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    Last edited by jimlosaltos; 05-08-2023, 08:29 AM.

  • #2

    These two shots get to Jannik's improved mobility. I first remember hearing the phrase "He gets long" associated with Magnus Normal when he made a run to the Roland Garros final. About 6 ft 2in but he could get low to the ground, reach out and still be able to control returns. Sinner "gets longer", with lanky Ichabod Crane limbs adding to his length.

    Complete open stance backhand, facing the net, and he comes out of his shoes leaping into the ball. Major rotation and leg strength.

    filedata/fetch?id=100669&d=1683562588&type=thumb

    And here you see Jannik's' improved recovery step.

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    Last edited by jimlosaltos; 05-08-2023, 09:25 AM.

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    • #3
      And this photo just because I like it <g>.

      filedata/fetch?id=100672&d=1683563100&type=thumb

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      • #4
        Ah, here's the backhand I meant to post earlier. I was trying to relate how impressed I was with Jannik's ability to hit offensive, aggressive backhands in less than ideal posture -- extended, leaning, reaching -- and he gets major snap and rotation anyway. He "gets long" and maintains racket control. Awesome.

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        Last edited by jimlosaltos; 05-08-2023, 12:48 PM.

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        • #5
          ATP has this on Sinner's forehand and how it ranks -- 9.6 today (Rome clay vs TK4) vs 7.2 average for tour.

          I've got mixed feelings about the ATP's 'synthetic stats', which seem vaguer than say ESPN's "Total QBR" quarterback ratings, but at least this graphic shows what comprises the stat, if not their balance.

          80 MPH ave, if sustained, would likely lead the tour. The one item I don't see -- which I personally think is one of the greatest strengths of Sinner's forehands -- is its depth. Lots of big guys have big forehands but getting consistent depth at velocity and weight is potent.

          filedata/fetch?id=100735&d=1683917360&type=thumb
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          Last edited by jimlosaltos; 05-12-2023, 10:57 AM.

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          • #6
            I've been very impressed with Jannick Sinner every time I've seen him live. Just has those long levers and just can really produce big shots.

            Sean

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            • #7
              Originally posted by seano View Post
              I've been very impressed with Jannick Sinner every time I've seen him live. Just has those long levers and just can really produce big shots.

              Sean
              Sinner's is the only forehand I've seen that can trouble Alcaraz (with the possible exception of Seb Korda's). I credit that to the depth.

              In the matches I've seen Alcaraz and Sinner use their forehands differently, Carlos seems to favor using his heavy balls to take people wide (when he doesn't go inside-in from backhand corner), while Sinner goes for depth. Seems as if Sinner takes an easy, effortless swing and the ball rockets within a foot of the baseline. Doesn't make one better, just use them differently.

              Unscientific sample, but that's what I've seen.

              P.S. Of course, I also thought Holger Rune was among the ATP pros that have no kick serve because I watched entire 5 set matches without seeing him hit one. I must have blinked. Because it turns out Rune has a very good kicker, per win over Sinner (Barcelona, I think). He must have forgotten to put that club in his bag the first matches of his I watched. <g>

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
                ATP has this on Sinner's forehand and how it ranks -- 9.6 today (Rome clay vs TK4) vs 7.2 average for tour.

                I've got mixed feelings about the ATP's 'synthetic stats', which seem vaguer than say ESPN's "Total QBR" quarterback ratings, but at least this graphic shows what comprises the stat, if not their balance.

                80 MPH ave, if sustained, would likely lead the tour. The one item I don't see -- which I personally think is one of the greatest strengths of Sinner's forehands -- is its depth. Lots of big guys have big forehands but getting consistent depth at velocity and weight is potent.

                filedata/fetch?id=100735&d=1683917360&type=thumb
                Pretty impressive whichever way one chooses to interpret the stats. Sinner is also quite spindly built compared to many others on the tour, so he's more technique than muscle and probably scores well on BG's measure of a good ATP forehand. As Seano suggests, those long levers likely play a significant role.
                Stotty

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by stotty View Post

                  Pretty impressive whichever way one chooses to interpret the stats. Sinner is also quite spindly built compared to many others on the tour, so he's more technique than muscle and probably scores well on BG's measure of a good ATP forehand. As Seano suggests, those long levers likely play a significant role.
                  I used to say that, too, especially after his late growth spurt to 6 ft 4 in or so. He was very "Inchabod Crane" <g>.

                  But he's started to fill out that frame and I suspect Darren Cahill has him in the weight room.

                  Check out the biceps on this forehand. He's not like countryman Berrettini, but he's got some muscles now.

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                  • #10
                    I think the bent arm forehand movement requires some assistive biceps strength, even more with a Nadal follow through. Only Cahill team strength trainers know for sure!

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                    • #11
                      After struggling in his prior match to beat a Lucky Loser, Sinner just lost in Rome to number 31 Cerundolo, who next meets Ruud.

                      Much heralded forehand was pretty quiet today -- only 5 winners vs 5 UFEs.

                      Sinner won the "critical 0-4 shot rallies", but lost the majority of longer ones.

                      I'd share more stats from the ATP site but after seeing his "fastest shot" was supposedly 315.3 km/h or 195 MPH, I think I'll pass

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
                        After struggling in his prior match to beat a Lucky Loser, Sinner just lost in Rome to number 31 Cerundolo, who next meets Ruud.

                        Much heralded forehand was pretty quiet today -- only 5 winners vs 5 UFEs.

                        Sinner won the "critical 0-4 shot rallies", but lost the majority of longer ones.

                        I'd share more stats from the ATP site but after seeing his "fastest shot" was supposedly 315.3 km/h or 195 MPH, I think I'll pass
                        His forehand was definitely the second best on the court vs Cerundolo. Cerundolo has a tremendous forehand also.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stroke View Post

                          His forehand was definitely the second best on the court vs Cerundolo. Cerundolo has a tremendous forehand also.
                          Maybe after the 195 MPH shot Jannik let up -- afraid of hitting and injuring someone <g> Kidding!

                          Seriously, haven't seen Cerundolo but given how good you say his forehand is, should be a good match up with Ruud, whose Fhd is no shrinking violet either.

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