Interactive Forum October 2023: Ben Shelton Serve

[johnyandell]

On the topic of watching matches many players now pay services to chart their opponents,

[jimlosaltos]

Yesterday he defeated Safiulin, who is supposedly a good returner (I haven't watched him yet), Ben had 50.79% unreturned first serves, per ATP

Over half his first serves didn't even come back. That's like playing poker and starting with a pair of aces before the draw.

And he mixes it up so much, instead of bomb, bomb, bomb like typical Too Big servers.

Max was 142 mph but he actually averaged lower than Safiullin - 194 kph vs 198 kph. first.

[kenh]

Just goes to show that science learns from the great players. This to me seems like a very natural serving motion and would almost mimic a center fielder throwing to home from deep center but of course he has no step with the front foot and a bigger hip and shoulder separation because of the no step.

[jimlosaltos]

The ISR is lightning fast even in slow motion! Another thing I really like about this serve is how balanced he is when he is landing...he has what I like to call the Federer Landing Gear.

I like that so much I'll steal it: Federer Landing Gear <g>

[jthb1021]

The ISR is lightning fast even in slow motion! Another thing I really like about this serve is how balanced he is when he is landing...he has what I like to call the Federer Landing Gear.

[seano]

Agreed. Mostly just get frustrated with the horrible things being suggested

[stroke]

Not a fan of that site but a nice comparison

Tennisplayer.net is the only site I would ever pay for, but I do like to check out other sites.

[stotty]

Link didn't work for me (might be on my end I just "upgraded" to Mac Sonoma which "has issues" but here's a link just in case:

https://youtu.be/EfXTul-uxyI?si=1k6KOwR3CrKmjmea

Interesting to compare. They are more similar than I would have guessed.

I always put Groth in the category of what I call "The Aussie Running Serve", for lack of a real name, ala Pat Cash and Pat Rafter, who barely get off the ground and seem to have more energy going toward the net than up. But both Groth and Shelton get some clearance beyond the Pats' "credit card" hops.

Never really studied Sam Groth's before serve but it's a weird one. Is it the camera angle playing tricks or does Sam's arse (ass in your lingo) point almost towards the net as he rotates his body round? Not a full ISR either by the look of it.

[seano]

Not a fan of that site but a nice comparison

[stroke]

Stroke -
Nice comparison

Well to give credit where it is due, Nick at Intuitive Tennis came up with that. But I agree with him, Sam Groth's motion looks very similar.

[seano]

Stroke -
Nice comparison

[jimlosaltos]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sam+...XTul-uxyI,st:0

Link didn't work for me (might be on my end I just "upgraded" to Mac Sonoma which "has issues" but here's a link just in case:

https://youtu.be/EfXTul-uxyI?si=1k6KOwR3CrKmjmea

Interesting to compare. They are more similar than I would have guessed.

I always put Groth in the category of what I call "The Aussie Running Serve", for lack of a real name, ala Pat Cash and Pat Rafter, who barely get off the ground and seem to have more energy going toward the net than up. But both Groth and Shelton get some clearance beyond the Pats' "credit card" hops.

[stroke]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sam+groth+serve+slow+motion&oq=sam+groth+serve+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgCEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIICAMQABgWGB4yCAgEEAAYFhgeMggIBRAAGBYYHjIICAYQABgWGB4yCggHEAAYhgMYigUyCggIEAAYhgMYigUyCggJEAAYhgMYigUyCggKEAAYhgMYigXSAQg3MDM0ajBqNKgCALACAA&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:30d6b4f5,vid:EfXTul-uxyI,st:0

[seano]

Shelton has a very unique approach to his serve but gets crazy powerful results. The torqueing of his lower body (severe knee bend, back foot and knees pointing backwards, knees not over toes, sticking his rear end into the court) after he releases his toss is not recommended but he gets tremendous mph. The timing of his racquet drop is interesting as well. He delays the racquet drop even though he has started to push off the ground and straighten his legs. He has such a "live" arm motion that he still pretty close to full racquet drop by the time his legs are straight, that's crazy fast. He reminds me of a combination of Roscoe Tanner (minus the short toss and little knee bend) and Pete Sampras with how quickly Shelton gets in and out of the racquet drop to contact and then finishes with an abrupt, compact finish. I wouldn't teach anyone to serve this way but just proves there's a variety of ways to get the job done.

Sean

[jimlosaltos]

Awesome videos!

Grabbed some info from ATP site to include. Dude hits all four corners. Varies his serve a lot.

1 of 3 images

Stats for 2023, lefty has a big hook but also hits it out wide in the deuce court -- 37% of serves there and wins a higher percentage.

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2 of 3 images

From Cincinnati loss in pair of tiebreaks to Tsitsipas, positive side, you can see how wickedly wide his lefty hook can go BUT doesn't get near the lines much otherwise. All firsts shown, peak 146 MPH.

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3 of 3 images

Ditto ad court

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