Donna Vekic's Serve Vs. Coco Gauff's

[jimlosaltos]

Jim - Look at the Panasonic GH7, as well. It came out six months after the G9 mk2. It has a couple more bells and whistles, the biggest is that it has a cooling fan to prevent overheating.

And more video, it appears. Thanks !

[seano]

Jim - Look at the Panasonic GH7, as well. It came out six months after the G9 mk2. It has a couple more bells and whistles, the biggest is that it has a cooling fan to prevent overheating.

[jimlosaltos]

It's a Panasonic 100-300mm lens but micro 4/3's has 2x crop (200-600mm equivalent). The down side is that it has a smaller sensor than full frame so it's not as good in low light. Also at HD300fps, it's manual focus, but with focus peaking, it's pretty easy.

Thanks. Will check it out.

[seano]

It's a Panasonic 100-300mm lens but micro 4/3's has 2x crop (200-600mm equivalent). The down side is that it has a smaller sensor than full frame so it's not as good in low light. Also at HD300fps, it's manual focus, but with focus peaking, it's pretty easy.

[jimlosaltos]

I purchased the Panasonic G9 mk2. I get continuous HD 300 frames per second. My 200 to 600mm lens is around 4 1/2 inches long, so it's pretty easy to disguise. It cost me under $500. I can be on the top row at Miami Open (Hard Rock Stadium) where the Miami Dolphins play and still get incredibly close up.

Very interesting alternative. Thanks for sharing.
What lens is that ( I don't see it on the Panasonic site)?
Does the lens zoom internally, or does it extend and if so how long is it extended?

[seano]

I purchased the Panasonic G9 mk2. I get continuous HD 300 frames per second. My 200 to 600mm (equivalent) lens is around 4 1/2 inches at it's shortest, so it's pretty easy to disguise. It cost me under $500. I can be on the top row at Miami Open (Hard Rock Stadium) where the Miami Dolphins play and still get incredibly close up.

[jimlosaltos]

As always, Jim, your photos are first class. Really appreciate your input. Where was it that they would not allow your camera in? It's always a tricky proposition to get cameras in. That's one of the reasons I went with a micro 4/3's camera. The lens are tiny compared to full frame.

Thanks! I'm glad if they're interesting or helpful.

Sadly, at Indian Wells. They've gone from being the most fan friendly and camera friendly of the big events, to all but banning fan photography. New standard is no "professional or interchangeable lenses", which is both highly restrictive and so vague and ambiguous it makes things difficult for everyone. I've taken photos there for 15 years, so losing that type of access is a blow.

A "new regime" took over management two years ago and everything got more bureaucratic. Another example, two years ago they decided literally on quarterfinals day to not let box seat holders into Stadium 2 for the first time (where several of quarters took place). No only did they give ZERO notice to ticket holders (I mean literally zero, it wasn't on their site in their app notifications, nothing) most of their staff didn't know what was going on -- not the kind volunteers in the Info booths, nor the entrance team, even some of the stadium entrance staff had no idea what was going on. Sigh.

I've also gone there a bit under media credentials. But that's a whole 'other story

[seano]

As always, Jim, your photos are first class. Really appreciate your input. Where was it that they would not allow your camera in? It's always a tricky proposition to get cameras in. That's one of the reasons I went with a micro 4/3's camera. The lens are tiny compared to full frame.

[jimlosaltos]

Here is the composite of the Coco's second serve motion. I can't add it to the intended post above, so I'll just put it here. Sorry. Software is being fussy.

Unlike the first serve further up there is little ISR that I can see here.

filedata/fetch?id=107135&d=1746820802&type=thumb

[jimlosaltos]

Finally, let's compare Coco's follow through on a kick serve to that of Fed from a TPN slow motion video, John shot years back.

Fed remains facing his forehand side while Coco rotates her body toward her target early in her swing.

filedata/fetch?id=107132&d=1746820085&type=thumb

filedata/fetch?id=107133&d=1746820122&type=thumb

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[jimlosaltos]

Here are some videos of possible interest. Again, all on mobile phone from a ways back so I apologize for the quality - particularly of the slow motion, which gets blurry and low resolution. Particularly on a grey, cloudy day with muddy light.

Gauff first serve normal speed

https://youtube.com/shorts/O6wOGm5DyzY

Gauff second serve slomo low rez

https://youtube.com/shorts/5y4nDPH77Z4?feature=share

Gauff Second, Long View

This cell phone video shows how conservative Coco is, to date anyway, with her second serve. It's short right in the middle of the box. It does have a lot of spin, though. If you watch the returner she is surprised, and has to lunge and reach up to get it. From BNP Paribas Open Indian Wells, March 2025

https://youtube.com/shorts/5K3MUWoqzqU?feature=share

[jimlosaltos]

I was about to start a TPN thread on Coco's serve and am glad I waited for Sean's good article.

My working title for the thread was:

Are We All Tired of Talking about Coco's Service Yet? I Hope Not Because She's Going To be Around a Long Time, Might Well Win Multiple
Slams and Her Serve Might Go Through Many Stages Over The Next Decade So We'd Better Get Used to It.

Kidding. Sort of. Rick Macci, the coach most notable for working with Serena predicted Coco will win multiple slams -- and that she'll hit 130 MPH with her serve.

Here are a few videos shot on my mobile phone, since I couldn't get my camera in ( Sorry ! ) and some images from those videos of possible interest.

Here are two sets of images, each from a different video shot on mobile phone. As for my comments, I'm merely a fan, so I'll attempt to stick to descriptions and leave analysis to the many qualified people here.

1 In this first serve you see arm rotation with her palm facing to the side

filedata/fetch?id=107128&d=1746819420&type=thumb

2 I have a second composite comparing the motion on her kick serve, but the forum software is acting up, so I posted it separately a couple of replies further down.


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[seano]

The photos that surprised me the most, when writing the article, were the 2 photos of Donna Vekic and Coco Gauff's serve, under the heading of Similarity #2, Both have their racquet heads so far forward, past their left shoulders, that it dooms both players to a front and back racquet path. Especially look at Coco Gauff's, this is a 2nd serve for her. Her racquet face is both very far forward and her strings are almost pointing directly down at the ground. My feeling is that this is a major reason why both have limited internal shoulder rotation around contact. Interestingly, Coco doesn't bring her racquet head nearly as far forward on her 1st serve.

[jeffreycounts]

Let's discuss Sean O'Neil's article, "Donna Vekic's Serve Vs. Coco Gauff's"