Courier: Role of Elbow in Forehand

[jimlosaltos]

Can anyone help me understand this comment by Jim Courier on Holger Rune's forehand and the elbow in general?

Courier said (from memory) "Rune is more comfortable hitting out on inside-in forehands because his elbow is stiff. Alcaraz, with his more flexible elbow, is comfortable hitting out anywhere including on an inside-out forehand. Fed's elbow was extremely flexible and he could go anywhere."

I thought I understood the straight vs bent forehand discussion. But all 3 of these players are in the minority with straight-arm forehands. So, what do you think Courier meant about his elbow? Here's a small photo of Holger' forehand from the ATP by Clive Brunskill/Getty Images from this page.

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[stroke]

I will give you my take on this, but obviously just an opinion. Rune seems very stiff to me also with his version of the straight arm forehand. The reveal to me is what happens just after contact. Fed, Nadal, Alcaraz, the gold standard straight arm forehands, break at the elbow just after contact as their arm is somewhat relaxed. Rune after contact, his arm stays pretty locked straight(rigid, stiff). And he does not get the rpm's that Nadal, Fed, and Alcaraz can get. Additionally, he seems to lock into the straight arm configuration very early, too early, too stiff.

[jimlosaltos]

I will give you my take on this, but obviously just an opinion. Rune seems very stiff to me also with his version of the straight arm forehand. The reveal to me is what happens just after contact. Fed, Nadal, Alcaraz, the gold standard straight arm forehands, break at the elbow just after contact as their arm is somewhat relaxed. Rune after contact, his arm stays pretty locked straight(rigid, stiff). And he does not get the rpm's that Nadal, Fed, and Alcaraz can get. Additionally, he seems to lock into the straight arm configuration very early, too early, too stiff.

Thanks. Very helpful. I just realized an upcoming article by Lewis, addressed this. Kismet.

[stroke]

Thanks. Very helpful. I just realized an upcoming article by Lewis, addressed this. Kismet.

That should be a good one. In addition to Fed, Nadal, Alcaraz, I really like the Tsitsipas and Rublev straight arm forehands. Del Po also, who to me has an argument as the 3rd best forehand ever.

[jimlosaltos]

I didn't realize that Chris would be addressing this when I originally posted my question.

From this month's article. The Physics of Power:
How Angular Momentum Shapes the Forehand

"
If you're coaching or playing, think about:

• Relaxed distal joints (elbow, forearm, wrist)

[clewit]

I didn't realize that Chris would be addressing this when I originally posted my question.

From this month's article. The Physics of Power:
How Angular Momentum Shapes the Forehand

"
If you're coaching or playing, think about:

• Relaxed distal joints (elbow, forearm, wrist)

Thanks for this message. I went to add some thoughts in the other discussion and could not for some technical reason. I think it’s hard to judge from video the amount of tension in a player’s elbow joint. Rune has a great straight arm forehand like Alcaraz, Rublev, and the others you mentioned. If a player can accelerate faster with a bent-arm increasing angular velocity enough to offset the loss of moment of inertia, it is curious why many great players have developed a straight-arm structure at all. Brian Gordon has argued that one additional benefit to the straighter arm style is a partitioning effect which allows maximum contribution to spin from internal shoulder rotation. If he is correct, this could be another factor and benefit to the straighter arm style.
Perhaps Brian could weigh in.

[stroke]

Thanks for this message. I went to add some thoughts in the other discussion and could not for some technical reason. I think it’s hard to judge from video the amount of tension in a player’s elbow joint. Rune has a great straight arm forehand like Alcaraz, Rublev, and the others you mentioned. If a player can accelerate faster with a bent-arm increasing angular velocity enough to offset the loss of moment of inertia, it is curious why many great players have developed a straight-arm structure at all. Brian Gordon has argued that one additional benefit to the straighter arm style is a partitioning effect which allows maximum contribution to spin from internal shoulder rotation. If he is correct, this could be another factor and benefit to the straighter arm style.
Perhaps Brian could weigh in.

I agree is is impossible to judge the about of tension in the elbow joint(or really the entire arm, which is what ultimately I was referring I ultimately referring to regarding Rune). I was just giving my personal take. I would love to hear from BG also as to what, if any significance, to this difference some may see between Runes straight arm forehand vs those that to me are better, such as Fed, Nadal, Alcaraz, Tsitsipas, Rublev, Del Po, Verdasco, etc.