Whassup with Federer?

[uspta146749877]

Expert picks for US Open

Not sure why my post was quoted for that reply, unless Roger was impatient in the Blake match. I missed it unfortunately.

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[uspta146749877]

Your post

Not sure why my post was quoted for that reply, unless Roger was impatient in the Blake match. I missed it unfortunately.

1.you missed everything
2.did nbc showed Federer and Wawrynka playing doubles?

[airforce1]

A bit suprising

Not sure why my post was quoted for that reply, unless Roger was impatient in the Blake match. I missed it unfortunately.

[uspta146749877]

Fed lost to Blake

In the matches I've seen, Fed seems bored and impatient. Seems like he not in the here and now, but looking forward to the business of making history. I also wonder if the mono got him in the habit of trying to win points quicker to save energy.

A bit suprising

[uspta146749877]

Nadal and drinking beer

Very interesting article.

I was at the Rogers Cup and saw Nadal beat Andreev on Thursday and then Murray on Saturday.

It is very impressive to watch how Nadal works a match in person.

The quality of hitting in the Andreev match was incredibly high as Andreev has a huge forehand. But, the thing about Nadal is that if you make a mistake and hit a short ball, he seizes control with his forehand. The key that I see is that he hits his lefty forehand with so much hook as well as topspin that guys either can't get it, or if they do they're immediately on a string. And, if they cheat to cover the hook forehand, he just whips it down the line.

I don't know if there is righty player who hits such a good topspin/hook forehand on such a consistent basis. Federer does hit this shot but usually as a winner as opposed to a construction shot.

Against Murray, the dynamics were different. Murray was really hurting Nadal with his two handed backhand. So, after a few games Nadal starting playing to Murray's forehand.

And, even though the column you linked to comments on how Nadal's backhand isn't as good as at Wimbledon, he was able to rally very well with his backhand against Murray's forehand.


There has been a lot of referencing of the concept of shot tolerance. I think that, right now, Nadal has the best shot tolerance on the tour.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKamwrstur8

[airforce1]

In the matches I've seen, Fed seems bored and impatient. Seems like he not in the here and now, but looking forward to the business of making history. I also wonder if the mono got him in the habit of trying to win points quicker to save energy.

[ochi]

Getting back to "Wassup with Federer?" who saw him sleepwalking against Ginepri? Scads of UEs again -- but why? Don't blame the Cinncy heat and humidity.

This has been going on for a long time. Not even Jose Higueras could snap him out of his lethargy. It reminds me of when McEnroe took six months off after being beaten by Gilbert or someone else who didn't belong on the same court with him. (Ever see, in person, BG poop in his second serves?)

Ginepri may have choked at the end of the second set; but maybe that's when heat exhaustion began to set in. It was game of him to stick out the third set.

Until then, Federer looked as finished as he did toward the end of his previous early loss -- remember those four UEs?

Perhaps mono has dulled his edge. I hope not for good.

July 31 -- Forehand errors cost him again(!), in the first and third breakers. Maybe he should take on Darren Cahill for a week. Or study videos with John Yandell.

[gsheiner]

Very interesting article.

I was at the Rogers Cup and saw Nadal beat Andreev on Thursday and then Murray on Saturday.

It is very impressive to watch how Nadal works a match in person.

The quality of hitting in the Andreev match was incredibly high as Andreev has a huge forehand. But, the thing about Nadal is that if you make a mistake and hit a short ball, he seizes control with his forehand. The key that I see is that he hits his lefty forehand with so much hook as well as topspin that guys either can't get it, or if they do they're immediately on a string. And, if they cheat to cover the hook forehand, he just whips it down the line.

I don't know if there is righty player who hits such a good topspin/hook forehand on such a consistent basis. Federer does hit this shot but usually as a winner as opposed to a construction shot.

Against Murray, the dynamics were different. Murray was really hurting Nadal with his two handed backhand. So, after a few games Nadal starting playing to Murray's forehand.

And, even though the column you linked to comments on how Nadal's backhand isn't as good as at Wimbledon, he was able to rally very well with his backhand against Murray's forehand.


There has been a lot of referencing of the concept of shot tolerance. I think that, right now, Nadal has the best shot tolerance on the tour.

[uspta146749877]

Nadal again

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian


This is a fascinating subject. We all focus on Federer's patterns against Nadal on clay but pay less attention to Nadal's patterns against Federer and others on grass and hard court.

There is no question that Nadal has dominating clay court patterns.

I think it all starts with his service philosophy.

Nadal stands closer to the center line than any other lefthander I'm aware of. I checked every leftie in the archives including Andres Gomez, Leconte, Laver, and his Spanish lefty contemporaries Verdasco and Lopez.

Nadal hugs the center line in the deuce court so much that his knees actually seem to cross over the center line.

I believe this gives him a vicious slice angle down the T. It's either a winner or forces righties to hit a weak backhand return from which Nadal can dominate with his forehand.

From this position however it is harder for him to serve wide in the deuce court. Watch him carefully, he hardly ever serves wide in the deuce court and when he does he doesn't get it up the line like the great lefties like Mac.

On clay, this tradeoff obviously works but I don't think it works as well on other surfaces.

Since I have no charting data to substantiate what I just stated, let me just say that this is a supposition.

However, it's obvious that his patterns don't work as well on non-clay surfaces. ( Many reasons obviously -- height of bouce etc)

So, the first thing i would do as Nadal's coach is have him work on a better serve wide in the deuce court.

This may mean experimenting with standing a little further off the center line to get a better angle.

However, I don't think Nadal will do this as he doesn't appear to be an experimenter. He may believe, and rightly so, that if his knees hold up he can win a a major on any surface.

Where you will see a change in the Nadal serving strategy is in the ad court. On clay against Federer at the French Open, he went almost exclusively to the backhand ( why not, it worked beautifully) but on grass at Wimbledon he has changed this pattern.

Two years ago in the first final at Wimbledon, I charted the Nadal serving pattern. He started off by going almost exclusively to the Federer backhand in the ad court and he was quickly down 5-0.

However, from then on in the match he made an adjustment and started to hit a lot of hard serves down the middle in the ad court. As a matter of fact, it was almost 50-50. This also made his wide serve more effective.

However, he never could adjust in the deuce court.

I saw him lose to Thomas Berdych 2 years ago here at the Canadian Open and he tried early in the match to serve wide in the deuce court. He couldn't get it wide enough and Berdych was able to rip forehands off this serve.

The other thing is see in the Nadal game is an over-reliance on crosscourt forehands on non-clay surfaces. When he lost to David Ferrer last year at the Open, Ferrer was sitting on Nadal's crosscourt forehand and taking it on the rise for winning backhands down the line.

I think Nadal has to hit more inside out forhands and down the line forehands to rightie's forehands on non-clay courts to stop them from cheating to cover his crosscourt forehand.

I believe Nadal adjusts his return position on non-clay surfaces but without watching and charting his matches, it would be impossible for me to make any comment about return strategy.

I get the feeling that Nadal is quite clever with his understanding of patterns. It will be very interesting to watch his play the next few months.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're coaching Verdasco or Lopez and you see Nadal dominating with his positioning for his deuce court serve, wouldn't you be tempted to try it and see what it's like?

please click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?id=3509153

[uspta146749877]

Fed again

I think during the mono, he developed a bad habit of being impatient. His shot tolerance # (correct term??) seems to have gone down and he goes for more penetration earlier in points, thus too many errors.

Sort of an over confidence/underconfidedence thing going on.

AF2,
please click

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3504994&name=bodo_peter

[uspta146749877]

Fed

I think during the mono, he developed a bad habit of being impatient. His shot tolerance # (correct term??) seems to have gone down and he goes for more penetration earlier in points, thus too many errors.

Sort of an over confidence/underconfidedence thing going on.

Please click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?id=3503254

[airforce1]

I think during the mono, he developed a bad habit of being impatient. His shot tolerance # (correct term??) seems to have gone down and he goes for more penetration earlier in points, thus too many errors.

Sort of an over confidence/underconfidedence thing going on.

[ochi]

back to lots of UE's

He lost again tonight, in the second round of the Rogers Cup -- his first round -- against Giles Simon. His vaunted forehand faltered, as it has many times in the past 18 months.

JY, what's he doing wrong?

Simply not enough topspin, it appears to me.

He cannot fix that? It's baffling.

[uspta146749877]

Nadal once more

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian


This is a fascinating subject. We all focus on Federer's patterns against Nadal on clay but pay less attention to Nadal's patterns against Federer and others on grass and hard court.

There is no question that Nadal has dominating clay court patterns.

I think it all starts with his service philosophy.

Nadal stands closer to the center line than any other lefthander I'm aware of. I checked every leftie in the archives including Andres Gomez, Leconte, Laver, and his Spanish lefty contemporaries Verdasco and Lopez.

Nadal hugs the center line in the deuce court so much that his knees actually seem to cross over the center line.

I believe this gives him a vicious slice angle down the T. It's either a winner or forces righties to hit a weak backhand return from which Nadal can dominate with his forehand.

From this position however it is harder for him to serve wide in the deuce court. Watch him carefully, he hardly ever serves wide in the deuce court and when he does he doesn't get it up the line like the great lefties like Mac.

On clay, this tradeoff obviously works but I don't think it works as well on other surfaces.

Since I have no charting data to substantiate what I just stated, let me just say that this is a supposition.

However, it's obvious that his patterns don't work as well on non-clay surfaces. ( Many reasons obviously -- height of bouce etc)

So, the first thing i would do as Nadal's coach is have him work on a better serve wide in the deuce court.

This may mean experimenting with standing a little further off the center line to get a better angle.

However, I don't think Nadal will do this as he doesn't appear to be an experimenter. He may believe, and rightly so, that if his knees hold up he can win a a major on any surface.

Where you will see a change in the Nadal serving strategy is in the ad court. On clay against Federer at the French Open, he went almost exclusively to the backhand ( why not, it worked beautifully) but on grass at Wimbledon he has changed this pattern.

Two years ago in the first final at Wimbledon, I charted the Nadal serving pattern. He started off by going almost exclusively to the Federer backhand in the ad court and he was quickly down 5-0.

However, from then on in the match he made an adjustment and started to hit a lot of hard serves down the middle in the ad court. As a matter of fact, it was almost 50-50. This also made his wide serve more effective.

However, he never could adjust in the deuce court.

I saw him lose to Thomas Berdych 2 years ago here at the Canadian Open and he tried early in the match to serve wide in the deuce court. He couldn't get it wide enough and Berdych was able to rip forehands off this serve.

The other thing is see in the Nadal game is an over-reliance on crosscourt forehands on non-clay surfaces. When he lost to David Ferrer last year at the Open, Ferrer was sitting on Nadal's crosscourt forehand and taking it on the rise for winning backhands down the line.

I think Nadal has to hit more inside out forhands and down the line forehands to rightie's forehands on non-clay courts to stop them from cheating to cover his crosscourt forehand.

I believe Nadal adjusts his return position on non-clay surfaces but without watching and charting his matches, it would be impossible for me to make any comment about return strategy.

I get the feeling that Nadal is quite clever with his understanding of patterns. It will be very interesting to watch his play the next few months.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're coaching Verdasco or Lopez and you see Nadal dominating with his positioning for his deuce court serve, wouldn't you be tempted to try it and see what it's like?

Click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3472238

[uspta146749877]

Federer

Federer makes full use of the court -- including the service-box areas
-- better than anyone else on the tour. Most players (like Lleyton Hewitt) spend
their time hoping to keep the ball deep. Federer seems to spend his time
thinking about how to use the full space. He has one forehand shot that I've never seen another player use. He takes it off a short, low
ball (1) when he's up around the center service line and moving forward and
toward the backhand side. He'll really wrap his wrist around this shot, getting
such exaggerated topspin that the ball leaps over the net and immediately lands
inside the opposite side (deuce court) service box (2). His opponent, back at
the base line, is taken by surprise and forced to rush up as if he were chasing
down a drop shot. Often, Federer's shot is a clear winner. If not, he is at the
net, ready to take the rising return -- it's almost always going cross-court (3)
-- with a volley (4) to end the point.




I've seen Fed hit that shot --very impressive demonstration of racket control and head speed.

But, it's not a shot he uses often.

Nadal is not too shabby on low short forehands either -- I think he hits them with a lot of sidespin as well to pull people off the court.

Please click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3464194