where'd the bent arm come from anyway?

[oliensis]

10s...yes, i agree. when i started making straight arm contact with low balls and especially high balls, above the chest/shoulders, i was very pleased with really no loss of racket head speed and ball control. the high contact point has become my favorite and with a very high back swing position and lots of leg initiation the shots become very penetrating.
prior high balls were handled with a loopy neutral type of ball instead of offensive.

Regarding the bold-faced part of the quote above, THERE'S THE KEY! I agree that those things are important. It's not the arm configuration.

Think about it. ALL the pros have great leg initiation. Many comparably skilled pros hit with EACH arm configurations. So, which is the essential component?

[oliensis]

...i'd like to see a double bender hit that ball with any pace. my point is as always, extension produces more racket head speed in more varied contact point instances.

one instance: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...hortFront2.mov

2nd instance: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...hortFront3.mov

3rd:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_forehand/aa_fh_short/aa_fh_short.html?AAFHShortRear2.mov

4th:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_forehand/aa_fh_short/aa_fh_short.html?AAFHShortNeutralStanceFront1.mov

5th:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_forehand/aa_fh_short/aa_fh_short.html?AAFHShortCrossCourtRear2.mov

Double Bend on a high ball, hit offensively: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelSide1.mov

2nd high ball hit offensively w/ double bend:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_forehand/aa_fh_short/aa_fh_short.html?AAFHShortCrossCourtFront2.mov

And a deep ball, hit shoulder high, offensively w/ double bend:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_forehand/aa_fh_moves_back/aa_fh_moves_back.html?AAFHMovesBackCourtLevelSide6.mov

Poof goes the thesis of the quote at the top of this post.

Since, on the extended-arm forehand, the wrist must be laid back MORE than on the double bend, and the contact point is further forward, generally, I am actually unconvinced that the effective lever length is greater on the extended arm. It's just a different configuration with "hinges"/"fulcrums" in different locations (or more accurately, different emphasis on different fulcrums). The "jackhandle" is just a different shape, so that the torque is applied to the ball with a slightly different set of mechanics.

Are you saying that contact height is more versatile with the straight arm,(in terms of generating racquet head speed) because of the extension factor?

Two advantages with straight arm configurations, I would think, would be a much longer "pull line" or line of acceleration to the ball, and more available hand and arm rotation to turn the wiper. Do you agree?

10s...yes, i agree. when i started making straight arm contact with low balls and especially high balls, above the chest/shoulders, i was very pleased with really no loss of racket head speed and ball control. the high contact point has become my favorite and with a very high back swing position and lots of leg initiation the shots become very penetrating.

prior high balls were handled with a loopy neutral type of ball instead of offensive.

[10splayer]

They can't.

And sorry to be rude but that has never been your point. But I am glad you agree with MY theory. (Airforce tell him it is mine!)

Are you saying that contact height is more versatile with the straight arm,(in terms of generating racquet head speed) because of the extension factor?

Two advantages with straight arm configurations, I would think, would be a much longer "pull line" or line of acceleration to the ball, and more available hand and arm rotation to turn the wiper. Do you agree?

[nabrug]

......i'd like to see a double bender hit that ball with any pace. my point is as always, extension produces more racket head speed in more varied contact point instances.

They can't.

And sorry to be rude but that has never been your point. But I am glad you agree with MY theory. (Airforce tell him it is mine!)

[oliensis]

OK. Extension is often a good thing, in general.
And erect torso is usually a good thing as well. I concur on those points.

Glad to hear that you agree that getting down w/ the legs is a good thing.
No bones of contention on these points from me, then. I misunderstood.

What the f***k?

One ball that he doesn't get down to and you take that as affirmation of a principle?

I can show you eleven-teen videos of Federer doing a beautiful job of getting down to the ball...and hitting a much better ball ...like this one:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelRear1.mov

is he extending still? of course. he doesn't get his body down to the ball, now does he? that was my point. he keeps an erect torso. as does my coach by hitting a ball lying on the court. erect torso and arm extension. he doesn't bend his legs to further emphasize his point of extension. of course we teach getting low with the legs.

that first video example...i'd like to see a double bender hit that ball with any pace. my point is as always, extension produces more racket head speed in more varied contact point instances.

[oliensis]

What the f***k?

One ball that he doesn't get down to and you take that as affirmation of a principle?

I can show you eleven-teen videos of Federer doing a beautiful job of getting down to the ball...and hitting a much better ball ...like this one:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_forehand/rogerfederer_fh_short/rogerfederer_fh_short.html?FedererFHShortCourtLevelRear1.mov

Got you! ......., didn't you get the false irony?

Ofcourse this is a FH2. And ofcourse he is not too close. He is doing this frequently. You did not get the point. I want to prove that the advantage of this technique lies in the much bigger contact point area (like you can read in my former posts) and not in the increased speed. Much closer to the body and much wider.

I am going to hit with left first thing tomorrow!

good one you got on me.

my coach demonstrates a full extended swing with upright body and straight legs and hits ball resting on the ground to make his point that the key is extension, not knee bend, getting down to the ball etc, so i am glad you showed me this video of Fed pulling a ball up from so low by extending to it instead of bending down to it.

[nabrug]

nabrug...looks pretty "extended" to me. ha ha Actually, if his arm is straight like that at contact, you'd be amiss to tell him he was too close. Once again, ya'lls examples prove me right. i love it. ha ha

Got you! ......., didn't you get the false irony?

Ofcourse this is a FH2. And ofcourse he is not too close. He is doing this frequently. You did not get the point. I want to prove that the advantage of this technique lies in the much bigger contact point area (like you can read in my former posts) and not in the increased speed. Much closer to the body and much wider.

I am going to hit with left first thing tomorrow!

nabrug...looks pretty "extended" to me. ha ha Actually, if his arm is straight like that at contact, you'd be amiss to tell him he was too close. Once again, ya'lls examples prove me right. i love it. ha ha

[nabrug]

Federer the closest/lowest man to the ball?! Obvious too close. In my next training session with him I will tell him to get further away from the ball.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_forehand/rogerfederer_fh_short/rogerfederer_fh_short.html?FedererFHShortFront4.mov

[uspta146749877]

For Mr Counts

Mr Counts,
could u see posts by Oliensis around

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=9277&posted=1#post9277

Any comments?

julian mielniczuk
usptapro 27873
Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,NA

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

I found online that Artem's coach is Jason Fransen, and that Jason also coached Bethanie (http://www.tennis.com/features/gener....aspx?id=67790). Maybe Jason and John could get together and work on an article on the straight armed forehand?

Jason and I will be talking about it in two weeks while he's here in Florida training with me.

[jeffreycounts]

My coach doesn't really have a base, but i guess you could say California, as he goes to where the tournaments are...his most recent success was Bethanie Mattek...getting her into top 40 (but doesn't work with her anymore), now he works primarily with Artem Sitak...who since changing to the extended arm foreahand from the bent has made the semis in three of his last three tournaments, so i suspect we will see his ranking continue to move up. he's moved up about 75-100 spots in the past month.

I am communicating with Brian Gordon to hopefully get some science behind the feel with Artem so that we can quantify the massive amount of improvement we've seen lately.

Bottle, where are you?

I found online that Artem's coach is Jason Fransen, and that Jason also coached Bethanie (http://www.tennis.com/features/gener....aspx?id=67790). Maybe Jason and John could get together and work on an article on the straight armed forehand?