Slice Serve

[andrew_thomson]

John,

My problem is with understanding the slice serve. My first service is OK but second is poor so am trying hard to develop a slice serve. Read and watched Denis Ralston's lesson with great interest. My problem is (and have discussed with other players and they have same problem) that I can slice the serve but without any power. I have studied your
articles on the serve and understand the pronation of the forearm and use this on first serve. However I cannot reconcile that movement with hitting the side of the ball at 3 o clock for the slice serve - in fact my forearm moves in the opposite direction, clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and it seems that, no matter how much effort I put into the stroke, I cannot
generate any pace to go with the sidespin. The movement is very much a scything action.


Best Regards


Andrew Thomson

[gzhpcu]

Andrew,
With the slice serve, the pronation is very late. The racket comes up on edge towards the ball, and begins to turn towards the ball. On this serve, before it faces the ball, it is still a bit angled, so that it hits the right side of the ball to impart spin. The swing path is out towards right. After impact the pronation continues, and the racket face will end up looking toward the side fence as usual.
So think of delaying pronation and hitting the right side of the ball.

[johnyandell]

I have a different take on this. I think it's less about where the racket hits the ball, than the angle of the upward path.

If you read the article in the heavy ball section comparing Sampras and Rusedski I think you'll see this pretty clearly. The racket face moves across the ball on an upward diagonal on any good serve. The difference in the slice vs the so called topspin serve is very slight.

The angle of the slice is slightly flatter. I can't say I can see any huge difference in the pronation and as for hitting the side of the ball, that is probably the root of your problem. Your are still going to hit the back of the ball and pronate, just go across it on a more left to right angle.

[andrew_thomson]

Thank you both for your replies. I shall read again and inwardly digest (I hope!). The whole concept I had of slicing the serve was obviously totally wrong. Now comes the difficult part - change. The practice court beckons - I will keep you posted.

Andrew

[gzhpcu]

What do you think of this John?

Look at the slow motion video from Jim McClellan

http://www.essentialtennisinstructio...think-english/

[johnyandell]

Yeah think it's pretty clear he is hitting the back of the ball with the racket on a left to right path.

[bottle]

I love this conversation.

[johnyandell]

Andrew,
Keep us posted. Think of it as basically very similar to any other serve in terms of mechanics--just slide the racket a little less bottom to top and a little more left to right.
John

[johnyandell]

This should help:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=6244&posted=1#post6244

[andrew_thomson]

Hi John
Read all of the comments with interest. I’ve hit a load of practice serves (approx 200) but not one decent wide slice serve trying to use the instructions given. I am not usually a slow learner but I’m beginning to doubt myself! I will keep trying but, as you can imagine, the confidence levels are low. The Sampras clips you posted were fantastic and it all looks so easy - the other comments were also useful.
When I was resting/thinking between sessions I concluded that what I really want to develop is a reliable second serve with something on it – not the dreaded push – and the slice seemed to be the way to go because (being in my sixties) I can’t ever see me ever mastering the kick serve which is generally what I see when I watch the tour players’ second serves. Is this flawed thinking with regard to the slice?
I have not come across any article/instruction on the site re. the second serve for recreational/club players but perhaps I have missed things and, if so, could you point them out to me. Thanks in advance.
Andrew

[johnyandell]

There is no such thing as a slice or a topspin serve. They are all combinations and matters of degree. What I really need to help you is video of your motion. Sounds like you are still focused on the slice component and you should go the other way.

I'd read this:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/mystheavyball/john_yandell/heavy_serve_practical_implications/heavy_serve_practical_implications.html

[andrew_thomson]

Thanks for that info - I will keep trying. Ref video of my action, 2 years ago I made the mistake of buying a new hd sony camcorder which records on to memory stick. I wish I had read your advice on the site to stick with mini dv tape. I am going to investigate and see if I can beg or borrow one of the older - and better - camcorders. As soon as I am successful I will send a tape.

Andrew

[johnyandell]

You can probably convert that to either avi files or .movs with the software that came with it. That'll work fine. You can email it in.

[andrew_thomson]

Unhfortunately I can't find any software with the camera that will convert the format. Another problem: I can take pretty decent videos with my Casio digital still camera (does that make sense?) but they are .avi files and I cannot get them to play back in QuickTime. Nothing is ever simple but I will come up with a solution and send you some video. I am away for several weeks from next week so you will notice a long silence but I will be back to get the benefit of your expertise.

Andrew

[johnyandell]

sounds good.