Rather frustrating...

[gzhpcu]

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

[llll]

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

dons position is very important
if you extrapolate his angle to contact i think you can see you end up alittle to the left of where you are.(i think)
don do you agree?
p.s. i sent an email to mendi

[tennis_chiro]

Tough from 2 continents away

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

[gzhpcu]

dons position is very important
if you extrapolate his angle to contact i think you can see you end up alittle to the left of where you are.(i think)
don do you agree?
p.s. i sent an email to mendi

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

[gzhpcu]

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

I have never found a teaching pro in Switzerland who ever noticed this, much less really understood the biomechanics of the serve. They all say my serve is fine, when I know very well that, among other things, I have this drop problem. Thank goodness for TennisPlayer.net and you guys...

A last question: to get the right angle of approach, should I also think of supinating my arm as I get to the bottom of the drop? (will try your excercises this week...)

[gzhpcu]

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

I think Marat Safin demonstrates from this perspective the action you mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q

[llll]

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

i was referring to the contact point line of the ball straight down and the angle of the racquet to your forearm
as i mentioned if you stop frame the pros at contact i think you will find a line drawn straight down from the ball it would hit the shoulder neck area on a first serve . more to the left than you. if you draw a line from contact straight don your goes to the right of your shoulder
with the contact alittle more to the left the angle of the racquet to the fore arm is also tilted more to the left.
phil you like me like to analyse in great detail
i think if you do dons drill especially with a weighted racquet you will FEEL it and not worry about supination. just my 2 cents

[llll]

don heres a question ive been thinking about
what comes first the chicken or the egg?
no this is not philosophy class. this is what i mean
since it takes time for the racquet to get to the right side of the body
people with deeper drops are spending more time relatively speaking before they start up
therefore giving the racquet more time to get over to the right side of there body.
so its a catch 22
to have the racquet on the right side of your body longer you need a deeper racquet drop
what do you think?

[gzhpcu]

i was referring to the contact point line of the ball straight down and the angle of the racquet to your forearm
as i mentioned if you stop frame the pros at contact i think you will find a line drawn straight down from the ball it would hit the shoulder neck area on a first serve . more to the left than you. if you draw a line from contact straight don your goes to the right of your shoulder
with the contact alittle more to the left the angle of the racquet to the fore arm is also tilted more to the left.
phil you like me like to analyse in great detail
i think if you do dons drill especially with a weighted racquet you will FEEL it and not worry about supination. just my 2 cents

On my second serve, seems like it is the shoulder neck area, isn't it?


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[tennis_chiro]

To the right from the back

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

Yes Phil, that is correct
don

[tennis_chiro]

Try to let it happen

I have never found a teaching pro in Switzerland who ever noticed this, much less really understood the biomechanics of the serve. They all say my serve is fine, when I know very well that, among other things, I have this drop problem. Thank goodness for TennisPlayer.net and you guys...

A last question: to get the right angle of approach, should I also think of supinating my arm as I get to the bottom of the drop? (will try your excercises this week...)

Phil,
If you try this with a weighted racket head, you will feel the move to the right (from the rear) naturally. If you relax the arm it will happen. Most people tighten up and try to help it too much. What really helps this move is the forward turn of the hips (hitting with the belly button) before the actual acceleration up to contact. Don't overthink it. You have to feel it.

don

[tennis_chiro]

Perfect video demonstration

I think Marat Safin demonstrates from this perspective the action you mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q

Great find again, Phil. This clip perfectly demonstrates what I am saying and what the drawing of Pete's serve in Technical Tennis illustrates. If you can get some of that in your motion, your serve will pick up significant speed, accuracy and consistency.
don

[tennis_chiro]

Deeper is better

don heres a question ive been thinking about
what comes first the chicken or the egg?
no this is not philosophy class. this is what i mean
since it takes time for the racquet to get to the right side of the body
people with deeper drops are spending more time relatively speaking before they start up
therefore giving the racquet more time to get over to the right side of there body.
so its a catch 22
to have the racquet on the right side of your body longer you need a deeper racquet drop
what do you think?

Deeper is certainly better, but everyone is not flexible enough to get the depth of drop of a Sampras. However, flexibility can be improved. I've seen different statements about serving and throwing a baseball that every degree you can increase external rotation of the shoulder is an additional mile per hour. I spent a few days studying a guy named Dean Brittenham down at Scripps Institute in La Jolla where he was working with a lot of "bonus baby pitchers". After they had already signed those big contracts, he was increasing their speeds by these kinds of numbers. Increasing flexibility and range of motion of the shoulder was critical. Such increases in flexibility get tougher as we get older, but on the other hand we may be operating at a smaller percentage of our potential.

So, if you obey the biomechanics, deeper is better, but getting over to the "line" to the ball is almost more important, and helps you to get "deeper".
don

[tennis_chiro]

Prett good!

On my second serve, seems like it is the shoulder neck area, isn't it?


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Phil,
I think your contact point and extension are pretty good, even for a much younger man. That's part of the reason I think you could experience a quantum leap in the effectiveness of your serve if you get the racket head to approach the ball from a position a little more to the right side of your body in its last acceleration up to contact.

Really curious to see how you make out with the drills and the weighted racket swing.
don

[gzhpcu]

Thanks everybody... now its time to go out and try out the various suggestions... I'll come back when I see some progress to report (hopefully...)