yuck - federer's slice backhand and topspin forehand are not to be emulated

[worldsbestcoach]

video of Gaudio

Thank you, tennisplayer, for providing a video of Gaston Gaudio's forehand. In my mind, he has a forehand that I have been describing as a backwards-emphasis topspin forehand. If you go back, you can read why I think that that type of forehand has so many holes in it.

Note that Gaudio's backhand has a tighter backswing and a much more natural, forward flow to it, compared to his forehand. His backhand was much better than his forehand. Gaudio won a magical French Open championship, and played many good matches -- but overall he would have been much better if he could have improved his forehand. Of course he could have improved his forehand, but there was no coach around who was insightful enough to teach him how to improve it.

[tennisplayer]

Thanks again, WBC. Yes, Gaudio does have a wonderful 1HBH!

Regarding the forehand, I did see that his backswing loop was somewhat bigger than what your description seemed to indicate was the right amount. Here's a very nice video of Cibulkova I found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJQ3TyEQS-Q

I see that she also does have a significant backswing, but she seems to be facing forward more strongly, and is very open in her stance. I will continue to investigate and learn - there is nothing more exciting than a new avenue to explore!

[johnyandell]

Hey Gaudio's on the site! Why not study him frame by frame with a couple of hundred views! Hate those utube shots.

[tennisplayer]

That's true, John, I beg a thousand pardons! I just went from the high speed archives to youtube, without going into the stroke archive. I am still trying to find an ATP example for the forward emphasis FH... I am planning to dig deep into the stroke archives this weekend!

[johnyandell]

No prob. We do have a few players there...

[worldsbestcoach]

cibulkova

Thank you for providing a youtube video of Cibulkova, and of course thank you John for providing your excellent videos. At this moment I still stand by my previous analysis of the Cibulkova forehand -- great in many many aspects, but it still has some holes. I like Dominika's follow through in that video. Often it can be better to snap over the ball instead of mindlessly jerking the racket over the shoulder.

That particular Cibulkova video does not show the way she sometimes gets too sideways for her forehand. Also, I would tell Dominika to try a 1-inch backswing -- try the same backswing, yet abbreviate it to one inch, like a Bruce Lee one inch punch. I am not kidding.

Of course, that is an exaggeration, but good instructors know that exaggeration can sometimes work. There is also the golf concept feel vs. real. Even though I would have Dominika feel as though she is taking only a one inch backswing, in reality she would still be taking a pretty big backswing.

One reason that I do not like her huge backswing is that her hitting elbow can easily lose its feel of solidity with the hitting side of the ab muscles. Good swings in golf, tennis, and baseball all have solidity between the hitting elbow and the hitting side of the ab muscles. Domika does a pretty good job of keeping the solidity of the elbow, but she is playing with fire with that huge backswing. She would have even a better forehand if she tightened it up some.

[summer]

no mention of Agassi?

First of all, I just want to say how much I'm appreciating the thought and sincerity of these posts. It's been amazing me lately how often even the most elite pros are framing and overall mis-hitting so many forehands. Thought that was just the price for the power and spin of the modern stroke, but maybe not... WBC, you may be on to something, and I'm looking forward to (as a previous poster noted) "getting my head around it."

It seems to me that the emphasis of the stroke you're describing is about contact, then to a lesser degree follow through. That said, I'm surprised not to have found mention of Agassi - such a clean ball striker, with a compact backswing that made him one of the best service returners ever. He keeps the racquet behind the ball; uses minimal arm joint (elbow in particular) movement with a strong connection between his hitting arm elbow and ab (i.e. hits with his body); consistent open stance. On the women's side, Henin is another example, but of course she modeled her forehand specifically on Agassi's. I'm not a pro, coach, or kinesiologist... at best an armchair expert. Just hoping to understand - and employ! - your concepts. And even better, Yandell has great videos of Agassi (and Henin), so no need for YouTube. What do you think?

Thanks again for the thought provoking discussion.

[bottle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrW-sIREZow

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...ce_front_1.mov

Thanks WBC, for suggesting that I might know something. The tennis email I treasure most came from Ben Ford, a tour technician, who said that very few young tennis players or coaches know anything about technique and to really understand it one needs to be a gyro of a certain age.

On the other hand, Andy R. the teen came up with a pretty good serve.

WBC, I agree that ideas can hurt as well as help, but a big part of being alive is making choices.

On Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, I liked that you only said they had "elements" of backward emphasis forehand. There's hope for them then.

Look, maybe some compromise among the various views is possible if we take Nadal and Federer as example (I haven't studied Djokovic enough yet). Federer at least keeps his racket in the slot. It's not unmanageably around.

And Nadal's strings face more toward the net (than Federer) at farthest back position.

With a mighty whirl Nadal certainly will be ready to wipe sideways whether finishing over head or down around shoulder.

I have to admit, I'm very taken with the Spanish-influenced instruction of Chris Lewit, of greatest possible whirls, in other words.

Once one gets one's huge whirl down one can hit the bejeesus out of the ball, right through the ball and flat if one likes, finishing at the lowness extremity.
The ball goes fast and stays low, too (if you use a strong eastern grip).

I hit this shot five times against a weak second serve last night and not once did the ball come back.

Or one can, if right-handed, hit left to right across the ball, flattening the wrist as part of the passing contact at huge separation (out to right). Or one can, as Nadal does in at least one of the above sequences, close the wrist to start the wind-back, then open it, then wipe across body in a rainbow to some kind of a still high finish. This newly discovered (for me) dipsey-doodle of the wrist is nothing if not compact like someone skipping a stone. Wrist stays back during the high, arching, horizontal cross out front-- no?

Note: If link for second video is broken, go directly to Nadal in high speed archive and click on first forehand. Or go to # 593, "A New Year's Serve."

[bottle]

Or go to http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...advtennis.html, watch threshold videos and then click on summary (top line).