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What about the grip in the ready position??

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  • What about the grip in the ready position??

    Below is a quote from Doug Eng's excellent article on grips in the two-handed backhand:

    "The conclusion is probably that different options may work for certain players who discover this through experimentation, rather than following rigid textbook dictates. But yet all the combinations fall within a certain range. For example, no players are using true eastern forehands with the bottom hand or extreme semi-westerns with the top."

    Clearly, there is a range of grips that works, ... or that player's make work but what is the best position to start someone out in if they don't already have a grip which they are really committed to? I understand there are some guidelines, but no matter what you teach, there will be examples of something that is different that is being used successfully by someone who just happens to be your student's favorite player.

    Anyway, I have a rationale I try to offer to my students which isn't necessarily borne out by much comparison to what is actually being employed by the best players in the world; nevertheless, I think my reasoning has merit. Here it is:

    First, let me preface that I prefer to see moderate grips somewhere between an Eastern and a semi-Western on the forehand and something near the Continental for the bottom hand on the 2-handed backhand with an Eastern opposite hand forehand grip with the top hand, certainly no stronger than a mild semi-Western, in accordance with the guidelines JY has shown here and Doug has outlined in his article. Remember I said PREFER. Often, however, the grips with which the player comes to me are something very different. Once the myelin is laid down for that habit, it is a daunting task to change it. As pumped as I was about learning that there was an actual physical component to making habits in the form of laying down myelin on nerve axons, I am also a little disappointed to learn that there is also a physical component to "bad" habits and I am not just imagining it when I feel like I am beating my head against the wall trying to get such habits to change. Not easy!!

    Anyway, one thing is abundantly clear in all but the rarest of throwbacks to classic Aussie tennis: there is a grip change that must take place sometime between the forehand and backhand groundstrokes. If a player is going to be able to deal with returning serves at upwards of 120 mph or at least 110 mph for the women, he/she will not have time to change the grip in a separate, additional motion before they get the racket in position to return serve. The grip change has to be an integral part of the backswing and the player has to maintain absolute control and feel for the position of the racket head as he/she is making that move.

    In the past, it was acceptable to poke the big serve back and try to get back in the point; not anymore. You have to be ready to HIT the return (agreed, you also need the chip, etc.).

    So here is what I advocate for my players. (I don't often get it from the advanced ones. It has to be trained early.) Wait with the dominant hand in the forehand grip position and the non-dominant (top) hand in the backhand position. If you have to hit a forehand, you can reach immediately to your right and get some kind of a shot off. I like the idea of pushing back with the left hand and this enables someone to change from an intermediate grip in the ready position, but it is awfully hard to do what Djokovic does in this clip:



    I don't know what grip he waits in. Perhaps he does change, but it would seem to me to be awfully hard to do.

    OK, but what about the backhand. I teach my students they must pull the racket back with the top hand and that hand has to tell your kinesthetic computer exactly where the racket head is as the dominant hand rotates around to the backhand grip, whatever that might be. So I want them waiting in the ready position with the opposite hand in the position they will use in their backhand stroke (1 or 2 handed), with the palm of that non-dominant hand well against the shaft of the racket so they can "find" the racket very easily and quickly with the other hand as the racket is pulled back.

    So that is my theory and what I advocate. We all know that the reality is that an awful lot of players wait with an intermediate grip and many wait with the non-dominant hand high up near the throat of the racket. But that doesn't mean that is the best way to do it.

    I really hope this topic will create a little dialogue. I know there will be plenty of response from some of the regular posters. I hope some of the rest of you will chime in, even if just about your own style and why you use that.

    don

  • #2
    Interesting and you hit on something not addressed in the article, but probably critical! Doug any thoughts here??

    Comment


    • #3
      what if you have a one handed bh???
      personally i use a conti so i am half way to fh and bh
      serve too fast or wide chip is there
      otherwise fh or bh no problem
      i am a rec player

      Comment


      • #4
        Same for 1 or 2 handed backhand!!

        Originally posted by llll View Post
        what if you have a one handed bh???
        personally i use a conti so i am half way to fh and bh
        serve too fast or wide chip is there
        otherwise fh or bh no problem
        i am a rec player
        I think you missed my comment in the post above that my approach is the same for one and two-handed backhands. In either case, there is a grip change for the dominant hand, except for the few die-hards still playing Aussie style with one continental grip for everything, God luv 'em!

        Here it is

        OK, but what about the backhand. I teach my students they must pull the racket back with the top hand and that hand has to tell your kinesthetic computer exactly where the racket head is as the dominant hand rotates around to the backhand grip, whatever that might be. So I want them waiting in the ready position with the opposite hand in the position they will use in their backhand stroke (1 or 2 handed), with the palm of that non-dominant hand well against the shaft of the racket so they can "find" the racket very easily and quickly with the other hand as the racket is pulled back.

        don

        Comment


        • #5
          Wta

          I have watched some videos of Tokyo on www.espn3.com
          It looks like Kvitova starts with a grip which has a grip closer to
          neutral (close to continental) for a dominant hand.
          I could be wrong

          Comment


          • #6
            And a lot of other people as well

            Originally posted by julian1 View Post
            I have watched some videos of Tokyo on www.espn3.com
            It looks like Kvitova starts with a grip which has a grip closer to
            neutral (close to continental) for a dominant hand.
            I could be wrong
            Julian,
            I don't get cable so I can't see espn360, but if you see it, I'm sure it is there. In fact, an awful lot of players do exactly that, but I wonder what the majority of players do and more specifically as it relates to their usual grips. What do you recommend for your players, Julian. I have put forth a rationale for what I recommend,but their is no one way that players go about this.

            I wanted to hear how other coaches and players approach this problem.

            don

            Comment


            • #7
              Initial reaction...

              This first initial reaction to the ball coming towards you is really key, perhaps the singularly most important split second in the whole process of making a tennis shot...and I like your rationale about the grips.

              Then there is the moment before the initial moment...the anticipatory moment which equally important in the scheme of things...in the scheme of the swing.

              Is there no end to this stuff?
              Last edited by don_budge; 10-02-2011, 01:04 AM.
              don_budge
              Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

              Comment


              • #8
                My approach

                Originally posted by tennis_chiro View Post
                Julian,
                I don't get cable so I can't see espn360, but if you see it, I'm sure it is there. In fact, an awful lot of players do exactly that, but I wonder what the majority of players do and more specifically as it relates to their usual grips. What do you recommend for your players, Julian. I have put forth a rationale for what I recommend,but their is no one way that players go about this.

                I wanted to hear how other coaches and players approach this problem.

                don
                Don,
                I do the same what you do with one possible exception
                of a backhand sliced return of serve

                Comment


                • #9
                  espn360/espn3

                  Originally posted by tennis_chiro View Post
                  Julian,
                  I don't get cable so I can't see espn360, but if you see it, I'm sure it is there. In fact, an awful lot of players do exactly that, but I wonder what the majority of players do and more specifically as it relates to their usual grips. What do you recommend for your players, Julian. I have put forth a rationale for what I recommend,but their is no one way that players go about this.

                  I wanted to hear how other coaches and players approach this problem.

                  don
                  Don,
                  espn3 comes these days as a frre bonus if one has a COMCAST based
                  INTERNET contract as well

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am NOT on the same page

                    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                    This first initial reaction to the ball coming towards you is really key, perhaps the singularly most important split second in the whole process of making a tennis shot...and I like your rationale about the grips.

                    Then there is the moment before the initial moment...the anticipatory moment which equally important in the scheme of things...in the scheme of the swing.

                    Is there no end to this stuff?
                    I teach to get into a default grip BEFORE all this anticipation will start

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For Don

                      Don,
                      I assume you know
                      005 is shaping up to be a fascinating, blockbuster year on the world pro tour. In this preview Tennisplayer Tour Editor A.J.Chabria assessing the state of the game and the games of the players, from the top stars like Roger Federer and Serena Williams to the young players, many of them not yet well known, who are breaking through to challenge them.

                      regards,
                      Julian

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For Don

                        The ITF manual describes your choice of grips as an OFFENSIVE grip
                        or a grip of an OFFENSIVE return

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Grips When Waiting in a Ready Position

                          I've heard many ideas on this and what's the optimal hand positions. I think it really depends on the situation 1) return of serve (first and second), 2) groundstroke rally, 3) ready position at the net. The less time you have, the more likely you will wait with the dominant (bottom) hand in a neutral (between) position. So return of the big first serve or a reflex volley usually will be near a continental grip. On a neutral rally or return of a mediocre second serve, the dominant hand should start in a forehand position. I prefer many two-handed students to wait frequently with the top hand already at the grip rather than at the throat of the racquet. That is, for their serve returns and volleys (if they volley with two hands on the backhand).

                          The traditional method of showing how to change your grip in the ready position or during the early phase of the unit turn shouldn't be regarded as the only way to readjust grips. I've seen Federer change grips in mid-swing. And Nadal will improvise on his grip. They can do so since their grips are a bit small and have greater manueverability. Often (on a personal experience) I know I change my grip after the unit turn depending on how much time I have to hit the ball and how much spin and pace I want. I definitely feel grips should not be rigidly set during the ready position.
                          Last edited by DougEng; 10-29-2011, 09:53 PM.

                          Comment

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