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2011 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals-London

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  • 2011 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals-London

    The two groups...

    Novak Djokovic
    Andy Murray
    David Ferrer
    Tomas Berdych

    Rafael Nadal
    Roger Federer
    Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
    Mardy Fish

    There have been a lot of injuries...players withdrawing from tournaments. There has been a lot of talk about the elephant in the living room. Who will show up in peak condition, who has "recovered", with the right amount of mojo and enough talent to stand on top at the end of the week?

    Does Federer have what it takes...one more time? The old war horse certainly seems to have gaged himself perfectly to give it a try.
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-17-2011, 02:53 AM.
    don_budge
    Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

  • #2
    Murray and Federer?

    Not being much of a prognosticator...but more of a Sherlock Holmes type, it seems to me that Andy Murray and Roger Federer are more at their potential fitness than the others.

    Murray won three straight tournaments, didn't he? And Roger won his last two. Nadal and Djokovic are somewhat question marks...are their injuries and tribulations real or feigned? Hard to tell sometimes nowadays.

    At any rate...some fantastic "modern" day tennis in the offing...let the games begin!
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-20-2011, 02:20 AM.
    don_budge
    Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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    • #3
      Taking a stand!

      Murray and Fed are playing the best since the Open. Nadal needs more time to retool after his beating in Asia. Too many fragile puppies right now! Federer beats Djokovic in the semis and Murray takes out Tsonga. Then I'm giving the edge to Federer in the final because of his fitness. But in 2012, Murray and Djokovic take over, even at Roland Garros unless Rafa makes some major changes.

      don

      Comment


      • #4
        Federer vs. Tsonga...first round. Nadal's bizarre bathroom break.

        Picking up the action with Tsonga serving to stay in the match. 6-2, 2-6, 4-5. Misses a sitter forehand volley on the first point...0-15, then a double fault for 0-30. Federer a forehand winner for 0-40. Triple match point. Federer concludes the match on the second try with a backhand pass. Game, set and match. Phew!

        Mardy Fish vs. Rafael Nadal next...could this one get interesting? Stay tuned.

        Well...they have split sets. 6-2, 2-6 with 2-0 to Nadal, up a break. Nadal has run off to the bathroom. Very, very strange. It's not even an odd game, changing sides. Bizarre behavior. He kept Fish waiting the whole time...Fish was just standing in the corner of his court looking in the direction of the bathroom.

        I never once remember leaving the court to go to the bathroom. Fish breaks back...after the surprise potty break. 1-2 third set. Nadal and Fish exchange breaks for 3-3...Nadal serving in the pivotal game.

        Tie-breaker. It would of been interesting to eliminate the tie-breaker in the third set for this event. You know...a little retro tennis. Shake things up a bit.

        Nadal wins 7-6 in the third. Yawn...goodnight tennisplayer.net.
        Last edited by don_budge; 11-21-2011, 01:40 AM.
        don_budge
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        • #5
          Ferrer beats Murray...Djokovic slides by, Life Goes On

          I didn't see either of the matches, but that doesn't mean there is nothing to talk about.

          Murray continues to be an inconsistent performer. Just when it looks like he is ready to make a turn for the better he loses to someone who he should beat on paper in a big event. Now he pretty much has to run the table. At the same time Berdych has been in excellent form lately and gave Djokovic a run for his money.

          Tonight...Fish and Tsonga, then in the heavyweight division...The Man vs. Nadal. Interesting match ups...to say the least. Could this be Roger's Swan Song? Is Nadal going to be distracted by Yannick Noah's comments?

          A golden opportunity for Fish to make a little "payback" to Tsonga.
          Last edited by don_budge; 11-21-2011, 11:11 PM.
          don_budge
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          • #6
            First six matches are completed and Federer is in semis

            My comments on the first four matches, that is, the first round of the round robin are up at:



            I'm going to try to get my charts up somewhere so I can post a link to them. Phil taught me how to do this about a year ago, but I've forgotten.

            I just got done watching A Master Class given to the all-time leader in Masters titles. I know: it's indoors, the court is just right, etc, etc, ...but that has to be the best I've ever seen Federer play against a quality opponent. Nadal only had 7 unforced errors and yet he was blistered. He lost 10 of the last 11 games including the last 7 in a row. Federer just never wavered. It was breathtaking! What has happened to Nadal since he played those 4 days in a row at the US Open is hard to absorb. I wonder if something is really wrong with him. I can't see him recovering this week.

            For Fish, it's been a tough autumn. He's realized some of his dreams just getting to play in the Tour Finals, but he's been really limited by his injuries. He was able to break Tsonga three times today, but he was out of the match in the second set. He has to play and practice a lot to be really sharp and ride the razor's edge that is required for effective serve-and-volley tennis in today's pro game. I hope he gets a couple of more good years to show his style. He reached a new peak for him this summer, but he can still be a little better before he loses it physically. It's fun to watch when he's got it working, but it is very difficult to maintain against these players.

            Murray's gone. I thought Berdych looked really good against Djokovic. It will be interesting to see how he bounces back against Tipsarevic and Ferrer. I think he is a good candidate for top 3 or 4 the next two years. Too bad we couldn't have worked on his service motion when he was 14!! With better mechanics, I think he could have served 160mph! Or at least gotten a lot better than 44% in at 145mph! I love how solid he is when he strikes the ball.

            don

            Here are the charts for Nadal/Federer today!
            Set1:

            Set 2:
            Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile.


            And here are the charts for Fish/Tsonga!
            Set 1:

            Set 2:
            Last edited by tennis_chiro; 11-23-2011, 12:34 AM. Reason: Adding charts

            Comment


            • #7
              "The diamond hard look of a cobra"...Bruce Springsteen

              Originally posted by tennis_chiro View Post
              Federer just never wavered. It was breathtaking! What has happened to Nadal since he played those 4 days in a row at the US Open is hard to absorb. I wonder if something is really wrong with him. I can't see him recovering this week.

              don

              First of all...I hugely enjoyed your comments and analysis of the tennis in London. I would love to team up with you and do some commentary at some tennis matches. It wouldn't matter where...just a couple of guys talking about tennis. Like the dueling banjos on "Deliverance"...a good cop, bad cop. That would be such a Stich...I mean stitch.

              So Roger did have that "diamond hard look of a cobra" and it wasn't my imagination. Why not?...he's a surgeon, sort of. Afterall, he dissects his opponents for a living. He really neutered the old conquistador last night. Have you ever seen the look on your dentists face at the end of the day? Knocked the crap out of him...no need for a potty break.

              Is something wrong with Nadal? Apparently so. I wonder what is bothering him. Perhaps he is distracted by Yannick Noah's comments about Spanish tennis...and magic potions. There definitely is something weird going on in tennis these days.

              Well, it's all about Roger, I'm afraid. When he's in the mix somehow everyone else recedes into the background. When he's gone what will be left? Modern tennis? I miss him already. Did you notice how he was more focused on the backhand side of Nadal yesterday? Hmmm....
              Last edited by don_budge; 11-23-2011, 04:02 AM.
              don_budge
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              • #8
                Moving forward...

                Although the news seems to be about injuries and ailments, or who's healthy and who's not it seems that a great upset has taken place. Ferrer over Djokovic 6-3, 6-1? At first glance,yes...but just a bit of further investigation yields that Ferrer is 5-6 vs Djokovic lifetime. Not much of a gap.

                On the other the meteoric Djokovic appears to of hit a wall of sorts and Ferrer has increased the octane in his tank...not necessarily as Yannick Noah has insinuated, but realistically it cannot be ruled out either. Strange days.

                Murray's stand in, Tipsarevic fared quite competitively against a resurgent Berdych as we head down the stretch with only two of the semifinal positions in doubt. Is that true?

                At any rate...it's beginning to look as if Roger Federer has it all planned out and he just might run the table. That would be just fine with me.

                Can't wait for the tennis_chiro analysis...which is the next best thing to being there. I must confess...I didn't see either of the matches more than briefly. Come on, Don!
                don_budge
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                • #9
                  ~

                  Ferrer has the energy-- and the strokes. He was relentless. Supposedly couldn't hit hard, did hit hard. And got Djoker on a day when he, Ferrer, needed to do one thing only for a sure point. So Ferrer used this tactic sparingly, smart fellow that he is.

                  Here it was: Trade backhands-- five, seven, ten. Announcers incredulous: "Hit to Djoker's backhand? Djoker's backhand is so much better!" But it wasn't better, was only even. And Ferrer always hit one more ball.

                  Then there was Djoker's drop-shot, so devastating when he edged Berdych.
                  I think he tried the same shot in the exact same place a total of once. Ferrer
                  got to it faster than Berdych, hit it deep down the line exactly like Berdych...
                  but it stayed in and Ferrer won the point.

                  Okay, so here was the sure tactic: Just when it looked as if both guys were going to trade backhands all day long, Ferrer went deep to the other side. And Djoker loped over-- four five, six, a hundred steps?-- for an easy forehand which he hit into the net. Unforced error! Again and again at every possible turning point in the match.

                  I can't tell if I like for an announcer Jimmy ("No wiper for you peon. Not till you advance beyond 4.5") Arias or hate him. This American Greek is amusing in that he makes fearless predictions. Which turn out to be wrong every time! It's exactly as if he's fated to play Ivan Lendl over and over every single day of the rest of his life.

                  This was a fabulous match full of memorable moments, the best of which occurred after the play was concluded, with Ferrer having wiped Djoker right off the court even worse than Federer did Nadal.

                  Betting on Djoker the next time they play will probably be smart.

                  Here was the moment. Ferrer didn't cross himself like Del Potro or Chang, but he did turn up his palms to the O-2 ceiling.

                  This gesture said, "It wasn't impossible, as I may have thought. People always place unreasonable limits on themselves, almost as if they hate themselves and don't think they deserve the best. A person just has to play his best game and let the result take care of itself."
                  Last edited by bottle; 11-24-2011, 06:29 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tsonga vs. Nadal...that's a lot of beef.

                    That's a lot of beef on the tennis court. Modern tennis sure does produce bigger bodies to play the game. Amazing that in the mere span of a couple of decades the human body has evolved so.

                    What really makes it interesting are the missives being hurled back and forth between the French and the Spanish regarding doping accusations...magic potions and the like. The Tour de France redux.

                    So...that makes it Federer, Tsonga and Ferrer qualifying for the semi's. One more spot open...to set the table for "The Man".
                    Last edited by don_budge; 11-24-2011, 11:12 PM.
                    don_budge
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                    • #11
                      Tsongas forehand was amazing last night! He has hit some nasty winners.
                      What grip is he using for those laser like forehands? Doesn't seem to be so western, looks closer to federer-like grip to me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nadal

                        I'm getting worried about Nadal. I only saw the last set against Tsonga but he looked deflated and miserable. He has a miserable, troubled expression much of the time when he plays these days...unlike Federer whose facial expression over the last ten years has had a "take it in your stride" look. I suspect Federer's outlook on tennis is probably better. I think he probably shrugs things off better.

                        In interviews, Nadal goes on endlessly about working, working, working harder...he has a kind of masochistic attitude towards his tennis at times. I can see Nadal burning out like Borg did.

                        Western faces say a lot (the exception being Borg)...remember Lendl? His face said three things all at the same timel: cold, miserable and ruthless.
                        Last edited by stotty; 11-25-2011, 06:27 AM.
                        Stotty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Where is the consistency?

                          Janko "Jarko" Tipsarevic takes out tennis' latest edition of the "greatest ever" and Ferrer gets pounded into submission by Tomas Berdych. Where is the consistency, I ask? Consistency is a hallmark of greatness. At least there is Roger.

                          I wouldn't be lamenting for "poor" Rafael...he's pretty well taken care of. That's not to say he's hasn't got problems of his own. He needs a serving coach for one thing. From the looks of things he seems a bit bewildered, a bit disoriented. Everybody is attacking his backhand, and when they are not, they are moving him over to his forehand side so that they can attack his backhand. Since his serve is basically a negligible factor, at least on the pro level to a certain extent...ok, maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration. But if a lefty cannot take his opponent wide out of the court on a consistent basis he isn't worth his salt...in my book. One Trick Pony.

                          Then there's Roger on the other side of the coin. After that execution in The Big Apple in September at the US Open who would of expected him to rise back to a level worthy of his past performances? There is hope for the thirty and over crowd...take notice all. He doesn't have the horse in the barn yet but the table is set. I wonder if Ferrer has a magic potion that can subdue Mr. Federer...which Yannick Noah has insinuated but the Spaniards are vehemently denying. I suspect not.

                          The rest of them...who cares? Roger is still around. All eyes are on "The Man".
                          Last edited by don_budge; 11-27-2011, 12:06 PM.
                          don_budge
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                          • #14
                            Setting the table for the weekend!!

                            Below is the blog that should appear in the next few hours on 10sballs.com. I hope to have another item soon that addresses the dismissed members of the class as well as an appeal to the ATP. It's absolutely pathetic how this is being covered in the "mainstream media" in the US. Whatever you want to say about styles, tactics, etc., you have to agree there is a lot of great entertainment here. And I have to tell you, again, watching the matches on TennisTV with Robbie Koenig and Jason Goodall and NO COMMERCIALS, is outstanding. That whole rant will be part of my appeal to the ATP. They have the opportunity to do so much more with that. They have a great product. They aren't packaging it correctly. They should be using changeovers to go through all the neat things they have online on TennisTV: shot distributions, serve distributions, super slomos; and they should offer people the option to jump back 15 seconds or 15 seconds twice for a long point and the option to go to specific points in a match; and they should leave the matches up for people to go and look at for the whole week. Why not? The people subscribing to something like TennisTV are going to be pretty serious tennis fans and they want more. For half the price they are charging now, they could probably get 10 times the number of subscribers they have now. Instead, I keep hearing people complaining about the Tennis Channel broadcasts.

                            anyway that will all be in my later rant, but here is today's article:

                            Federer, Ferrer, Tsonga and Berdych: 4, 5, 6, 7 - Where are 1, 2 and 3!!??

                            I've watched an awful lot of tennis this week. I think I've seen almost all but one of the singles matches and charted 8 or 9 of them. At the beginning of the week, what odds could you have gotten that Djokovic, Nadal and Murray would all be gone before the weekend began? I'll have more to say about them at another time; for now, suffice it to say they need to study Roger Federer's schedule. But for now, I want to make a brief comment about the 4 semifinalists.

                            Federer: he comes into the semis, fresh, healthy and playing perhaps his best tennis of the year. I thought his play against Nadal was some of his best ever (and so did Nadal). This whole thing is setting up very nicely for him. A win in the semis will bring him back up to #3 and if he can maintain form and win the Australian he can leapfrog Nadal and get within hailing distance of Djokovic and his number one ranking. But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. He gets an opponent he has never lost to in 11 tries. The only danger is that he just comes out flat as he has on occasion the last couple of years. But he doesn't seem to have that problem this week and the O2 crowd will help him get up for the weekend matches. Roger is still the heavy favorite to win; in fact, much more so than at the beginning of the week.

                            Ferrer: he had it within his grasp against Berdych, up a break in the second set not once, but twice; in fact, he was up a set, 4-3, 40-15 and he abandoned his aggressive, attacking style of play and reverted to his instincts: he went to the "prevent defense". It didn't work any better for him than it did for the Dolphins against the Cowboys on Thursday night. In the meantime, as Jason Goodall pointed out on TennisTV, Berdych was coming to the net. He came in on 10 of the first 20 points on the set, and even though he was still down a break, 2-1, he continued to attack; and he turned the match completely running off 7 games in a row to go up 5-0 in the third. Ferrer said his serve let him down in that 4-3 game, but he had gone to the "prevent defense" a couple of games before that. That is not the strategy that got him those victories against Djokovic and Murray. He had become just a bit tentative at the time he needed to be just a little bit bold. That was a physically and psychologically draining loss and he doesn't have much time to recover, but he is still the "Energizer bunny" of men's pro tennis. He will keep going…and going…and going. There are almost no expectations for him to pull off the upset tomorrow. And that is the reason I think he is still dangerous. There is no pressure on him and he knows he can't beat Federer by playing safe. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain. So I expect him to be unexpectedly tough tomorrow.

                            Berdych is an entirely different story. He may be playing the best tennis of his career. I watched him play all three of his matches this week and he is moving better and better, going forward more and more and ever more effectively. He is Lazarus in this field, having been down match point and a routine, if not easy, match point backhand volley away from being, for all practical purposes, eliminated from a chance at the semis against Tipsarevic. Then he struggled to find his range in tonight's match with Ferrer, going down a set and a break and just 5 points from being out of it. But he played boldly and very well and did turn it around driving the ball deep, transitioning to the net beautifully finishing with volleys that a doubles specialist could be proud of. Whether or not, Tomas achieves his dreams this weekend, I believe he will move further up the rankings next year, and he will have to knock a couple of people down to do that. He is faltering just a little when he changes directions to take especially his forehand down the line and noticeably on pressure points. But he is working his way through that, building massive amounts of confidence with each victory. I think he hits bigger than anyone in this field and his ball penetrates more than some of the players with heavier balls. I believe this is one of the reasons he gives Federer so much trouble. Roger can't pull off his magic tricks with the deep penetrating drives that Berdych hits with more and more aplomb. With each match, he appears more and more comfortable moving along the baseline, and also moving forward to finish the points at the net.

                            The only time Berdych and Tsonga met, was in the semis of Beijing the first week of October. Berdych won that encounter 6-1 in the third; it was an amazing display of ball striking, the biggest I think I have ever seen. Tsonga is the one player who may hit the ball even bigger than Berdych, but not as consistently. He is also a swifter, more agile, if somewhat less disciplined mover. Jo-Wilfred has had some great wins this year, beating Federer in a signature come-from-behind win at Wimbledon and again in Canada before losing to him at the US Open and two weeks ago in Paris. If he is making his first serve, he simply can't be broken and he can make a shot off almost anything; so nothing is safe. But he just seems to be a little too up and down to hold it together against the very best playing well, and that is Berdych right now, as well as Federer. At the same time, Tsonga as well as Berdych are right at that age where they either mature and become really great players who actually win Majors, or they devolve to another name in the lexicon of "best who never won a Major". I see them both on the edge of greatness. That's why it should be a great year for watching tennis in 2012 and also why it should be a great match between Tomas and Jo-Wilfred tomorrow. I'm taking Berdych there, but don't bet your lunch money!

                            don

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                            • #15
                              I understand Don's gripe about tennis coverage. The great thing about the BBC's coverage of tennis over here in the UK is there are no adverts. Changeovers are for the pundits to give informed analysis and for the back room guys to give those curious match statistics. I like that...adds to the tennis.

                              The downside is the commentators aren't great. The BBC employs McEnroe here and there and his commentary is usually excellent. The others are rather bland and offer little insight other than what many fans already know. The great thing about Robbie on TennisTV is that he lives and breathes the match with the players...and he has insight and knowledge. I am a big fan of Robbie.

                              My favourite commentators work mostly on the radio, not TV...: Frew McMillan and Michael Stich. Frew is a bit quirky but is his own man who puts his own slant on things. He has a dry sense of humour which I like, too.

                              A question to anyone who reads this:

                              I was thinking of buying an Internet radio...you know, the ones that offer 3000 plus stations. If I did, would I be able to pick up radio commentary of the US Open and Aussie Open, etc. I am assuming I can but wondered if anyone knew for sure.
                              Stotty

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