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Your Strokes: Eva So: Forehand

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  • #16
    For Alexandra

    I'm not sure that anyone really tried to answer Alexandra's question, perhaps because it seemed rhetorical; i.e., Alexandra already knew that a closed racket opening as a feature of forehand forward stroke is easier to produce well than an open racket closing in a somewhat similar but more dissimilar way. Stotty is a person who has discussed this same subject compellingly regarding the one-handed backhand of J. Donald Budge.

    But I'd like to contemplate a third forehand possibility: forward swing that retains the initial setting of its pitch right up to slingshot. This would be basic Roger Federer before he gets into all of his extreme variations. How does he do it? With a connected, i.e., solid swing.

    Solid swing will never change pitch (exception: If hips suddenly angulate like an Austrian skier crying "Hoopla"). Neither will scapular adduction (slow or "the slingshot" so long as this shoulder housing spring is parallel to the court). Neither will a weak but wide, independent sweep of the arm. Pitch only opens when arm takes an underhand solo as in a bowling alley. To counter such opening if one must, one can use adjustment roll by the arm, but why choose something that in most instances is unnecessarily complex?

    I'm learning from one-handed backhand that one can apply both kinds of independent arm travel at the same time for all kinds of variation so long as a basic inside out swing exists. I think of the two-- scapular retraction (A) and shoulder ball motion within the shoulder housing that's most likely "bowling" (B) as corollaries that vary in inverse proportion. Want to steer these shots better? Adjust the corollaries.

    Basic inside out swing never crosses-- in either direction-- a mental line to the target and is an even arc that coincides briefly with that line before leaving it. One can nudge (prolong) the coincision a little. This is best done from the gross bod since no one wants to inhibit the arm.
    Last edited by bottle; 09-26-2012, 09:56 AM.

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    • #17
      db,

      That all happened in less than an hour. Pretty much real time.

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      • #18
        Stotty, Vaughn,

        Great to have two LTA coaches posting! Vaughn since Stotty has a few hundred posts what I'd like to do is give you a different login to avoid confusion--hopefully you'll be making more posts but it's too weird to have both of you under the LTA login. Email me what you'd like for a login ok? videotennis@metricmail.com

        John Yandell

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        • #19
          Vaughn,

          Just not sure there is any significant deceleration in the backswing--my primitive understanding is that it stays about the same or increases--so no I am not really worried about that from the injury point of view. Straight backswings all in all aren't a problem and can work at even high levels. I still love the simplicity of Mac and Connors in that respect.

          I would like to see her close her racket face a little more in Brian's position.

          But my main concern (injury as well as effectiveness) would be to move her contact more forward. In the neutral stance her torso should be about 45 degrees at contact.

          The main point of the article was to show how one position that was new to my teaching had an amazing ripple effect in less than an hour. It was just by chance that I got a chance to work with Eva but if it happens ago I might update.

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          • #20
            Backswing in an hour...

            Good deal for her. Her body is not engaged to play tennis. From ready position to the finish of her swing. She needs a lot of training in movement...I believe she would really benefit from Mark's training videos.

            She doesn't look connected as a coach once said to another coach in Florida on a bright sunny day. Strongly recommend the training program for a month and tell her to come back. That will make all of the difference. She may not come back one with the universe but she will be ready for phase two...commitment to the shot.

            Chest on the ball. Weight on the front foot. Left hand...oops right hand (she´s left handed) actively engaged and not passively falling by the way side. Hips and legs thrusting into the "path" of the ball or the "path" of her swing. Energy not dissipating up and to the right in thin air. Lean on the ball through your racquet head!

            You need one more hour. You fixed her backswing in an hour. One more hour for the journey forwards. Maybe two...for that moment that is betwixt and between. The Mad Hatter's moment. The transition...when it is all hanging in the balance. Good work. Nice article. Excellent presentation and video support.

            Do you have any room for an apprentice? Will work for food.
            Last edited by don_budge; 09-27-2012, 01:12 AM.
            don_budge
            Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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            • #21
              John
              Thanks your reply and new log in.
              I'm sorry I don't think my explanation was clear enough. I think my understanding of the science of movement in function is a little better than my ability to communicate it.

              The deceleration I mentioned is part of the stretch-shorten cycle that muscles need for the load to explode in movement. Thinking about an elastic band is, for me, the best way to understand it. As you stretch an elastic band, the stretch slows as you reach it's end range to avoid snapping. Muscles do the same which must mean that the pace of backswing slows just before the forward swing starts (in the Transformational Zone or when direction changes). The injury risk is increased there or as likely in some other part of the kinetic chain like the lower back, as the body will try to find compensations if the movement is not authentic. I had a look at your archive footage of Connors and can see both external and internal rotation at the shoulder as well as the more obvious flexion and extension in the sagital plane(front to back)in all his strokes.

              If I were working on bringing Eva's contact point further forward I would be looking to increase her range of movement in the left hip, by using a balance reach and lunge matrix, especially in the transverse (rotational) plane. Eva has a problem with her left hip(maybe anatomical certainly functional) and these exercises will increase her range incrementally. I would look at her range of movement at the shoulder and encourage movement in all three planes either by moving the arm in a swing matrix and/or moving the body to create the required movement in the arm. It seems that her extension forward in the sagital plane starts before the rotation in the transverse plane completes. This inhibits here ability to get the arm low enough and also forward enough in the sagital plane and might explain why her body compensates by moving up and to the right in the forward swing. I would also look at her range at the elbow and wrist on the same basis.

              John, sorry for long windedness, but you might sum up the difference in our method this way. You would have a better contact point in mind for her which she would achieve over time with practice.
              I would work on her body's range of motion with exercises that build on her success, enabling her to make contact as far forward as her body can achieve with authentic movement, at any given time in her training.

              John my interest is in understanding what movement science in function can do in helping to coach technique and help avoid injury.( I was interested to note what don_budge had to say about her body's engagement to play tennis- it seemed to be all about her lack of movement)

              John, hope I haven't confused or bored you too much as I am probably an over zealous convert to Applied Functional Science. I must add that it has transformed my tennis. My game had deteriorated along with my body after 30 years of coaching and playing without functional training. It works for me as a player and is helping a wide variety of my students.
              As I said, Nike are promoting Applied Functional Science in Golf and a Premiership Football Team, here in the UK, have a A.F.S. consultant.
              It is becoming an accepted teaching method in more sports and will reach tennis in time. Video and slow motion have revealed more of the truth of function, than it was possible to know when most of the theories and practises used today, were put in place. This is changing fast.
              Sorry John, did mention my tendency to over zealousness.
              Thanks
              Vaughan

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              • #22
                Vaughn,

                Thanks for the post...I think I understood several parts! Keep working on translating your thoughts into matter of fact language. That's the transition that makes new ideas accessible.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by alexandrafranco View Post
                  I see many players with their racquet closed at the begginning of the stroke and Eva starts with the edge(I suppose she has more of a continental grip), to get to the closed, pat the dog position, would it not be more beneficial to start with racquet closed?
                  I agree, that even in the new position the arm is still rotated externally, there will be no "flip" in this action.
                  Last edited by 10splayer; 09-30-2012, 03:50 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tommym View Post
                    She might have improved her backswing slightly but she will still be late on shots and exert a lot of effort to hit the ball - because she is still hitting with the arm.

                    Her mental image is that she needs to turn to prepare and then hit the ball with the arm.

                    The correct mental image is to turn to prepare and then turn/rotate to hit the ball and in the last part just before the contact allow the arm to work with the energy supplied from the rotation.

                    In her case the rotation of her body lags behind the arm - which means she initiates the move forward with arm first. That will cause many late contacts. Telling her to prepare early won't fix that.
                    Agreed, this is a case of the arm leading torso rotation. The body is a big, cumbersome machine, and takes time to wind and unwind. If the arm "leads" in the intial part of the forward swing, the body will be left behind to follow. In fact, in almost all cases with high caliber players, the body starts to "unwind" it's position, as the racquet is being laid down in the backswing.....which will give it sufficient time to lead the arm.
                    Last edited by 10splayer; 09-30-2012, 03:52 AM.

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