A New Teaching System: The Second Serve

[johnyandell]

You guys give me too much credit. The numbers are out there but someone would have to compile them...but my impression is second serve speed is going up just like all ball speed.

The idea of hitting two first serves...yeah I read that article. There is an assumption there that these guys are robots and can just produce shots according to certain percentages should they choose to. Obviously the feeling of hitting a first and second serve is different emotionally and psychologically and that's why it's kind of a silly idea in my opinion.

[stotty]

John,

Do you have any thoughts on the apparent trend of more ATP pros going for aggressive, second serves?

Not sure it is relevant to us weekend hackers, but I've noticed two approaches 1) a lot more "big" seconds, i.e. 116-125 by likes of Nole, DelPo, Janowicz, Gulbis and 2) more wide, short slice (Dimitrov, Fed, Haas)

Tangentially, there is this 2010 NYT.com article by John Branch arguing that mathematically many ATP players would be better off hitting two first serves (Djoko yes, Fed no).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/sp...30serving.html

Intersting post, Jim. I will be interested to hear John's thoughts. I see the article you linked to was written in 2010 not 2013.

Tim Henman assures us Brits that, on average, second serves are slower these days and less aggressively placed...just rolled in. He thinks there is an opportunity for the game to change as a result. He thinks returners could attack more and even seize the net.

I'm have no idea whether the average second serve speeds of players have decreased or increased over the last five years or not. I watch tennis mostly TV and not live so it's hard to judge.

Is Henman right...or is his personal opinion undermined by evidence? Over to John....

[jimlosaltos]

More Pros Going Big on Second?

Would love to get your thought's on "A New Teaching System: The Second Serve"!

John,

Do you have any thoughts on the apparent trend of more ATP pros going for aggressive, second serves?

Not sure it is relevant to us weekend hackers, but I've noticed two approaches 1) a lot more "big" seconds, i.e. 116-125 by likes of Nole, DelPo, Janowicz, Gulbis and 2) more wide, short slice (Dimitrov, Fed, Haas)

Tangentially, there is this 2010 NYT.com article by John Branch arguing that mathematically many ATP players would be better off hitting two first serves (Djoko yes, Fed no).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/sports/tennis/30serving.html

[johnyandell]

Agreed.

[tennis_chiro]

2 or 3 important inches

I would agree yes, lower. That does go with the backward (or left bevel) of the racket tip. Probably like 2 or 3 inches?? At most.

Yes, just a couple of inches, but if you actually hit the ball at the top of your reach like we were all taught to do, at least on our first serves, you couldn't actually impart any topspin to the ball. (Not absolutely correct because you could still get some topspin off a descending ball, but that would be minor compared to the actual spin rates that are needed for effective second serves.) That feeling of hitting up on the second serve is not imaginary; it is very important.

don

[johnyandell]

I would agree yes, lower. That does go with the backward (or left bevel) of the racket tip. Probably like 2 or 3 inches?? At most.

[tennis_chiro]

Contact point? Not as high?

Would love to get your thought's on "A New Teaching System: The Second Serve"!

As usual, it's excellent. But I have a question: in addition to being slightly to the left and not quite so far in front, I have felt that the contact point is actually a little lower to enable the server to strike the ball with a more upward motion and create more topspin. Does the video evidence bear this out? On the first serve, I think you want to catch the ball at the highest point of your service motion, but even there, you might be hitting slightly up on the ball.

don

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thought's on "A New Teaching System: The Second Serve"!