Your Strokes: Francis Tiafoe: Serve

[stotty]

It's a great way to get to know women by the way.

It is. Nearly 30 years ago I gave my wife a tennis lesson. She was 18 and I was 24. The rest is history. We have been together ever since.

"Poise" for an overhead. I love that term. I shall use it. Thank you.

Stotty

[bottle]

Thumbs up.

[don_budge]

True. Very often kids have to mature to a certain age before they see the light or the coach can reach them. Sometimes by then it's too late so they cannot be maximised.

I have had model pupils in the past but they are few and far between.

Sometimes when you are on your eighth lesson of the day and you are stuck with an unreceptive kid who is stubborn about change, you feel like throwing the towel in.

I have become very intuitive about who is who and who to give the best of my time. A coach has to pace himself over the course of a day and concentrate his efforts where he will get the most return. There is little point flogging a dead horse once you have tried everything known to man to motivate a child to improve, and failed.

This is the reality, and it's familiar to every coach who has put countless hours over the course of a career.

When you see a Tiafoe, it's all too easy to put the boot into the coach responsible.

He would certainly have been red flagged over here at development level for the way he serves. You have to believe he would have been over there in the US. The problem could well be Tiafoe himself for all we know.

Perhaps he is just stubborn, difficult...resistant to change. That's all I am saying.


Stotty

Good comments by a couple of interesting coaches. Recently I have had a number of students returning or I might just be meeting them out somewhere. But I get this feeling that they are somehow in awe of me. They remember how much I cared about them to try so hard to do what was best for them. They also probably smile a bit sheepishly to themselves when they remember how resistant they were to change.

In my own case...I recently saw my dear old tennis coach Sherman Collins. I visited him with my dear old father. Together we were down in Sherman's basement where he had his collectables from the Civil War and he was telling us stories of his childhood...hopping trains outside of Milan, Michigan and such. The next thing I knew I was out on the tennis court with this man...at 86 years old in 90 degree heat. He was still giving me a lesson. "Sweep the table" with the forehand..."poise" when you are hitting an overhead.

Long ago I came to terms with my rebellious nature as it is juxtaposed to the conservative attitudes to my father and my coach. I remember that at the time I was under the influence of both of these fine individuals that the Vietnam War was an existential theme and issue burning in the gold mine of my brain.

It was the timing in some respects...I wasn't ready to hear the word. But funny enough...I hear his voice in my head now. Both of their voices. I hear the love and the concern they had for me as a young man. I see the pride in their breasts when they see the man that I became. A product somewhat of their influence. I give their voices to my students...as well as my own.

The relationship between a coach and his protege is very special. Like the game itself...it never stops evolving. You may reach them in the moment or you may give them pause to reflect somewhere down the line. It doesn't matter...it is only that you do your best at the moment.

I am talking about the love of the game...and the love between the student and teacher. It's a great way to get to know women by the way.

[stotty]

The lesson is...they are all different. Aren't they? You have to find what makes them tick in a myriad of different ways. Sometimes without ever finding it. One of the most interesting aspects of the job...and one of the most challenging.

Very good point. I have three kids.

The oldest tried hard to follow my instructions but it took a long time for things to sink in. I had to work with her repeatedly to do simple things like run to a ball without shaking like a chicken.

The middle one was very athletic but was always tinkering. When I tell him something, he says he did something else which is what really helped him. Has a need to always be right.

The youngest is very coachable. She listens, she absorbs and then she does it. She will do exactly what I tell her the very first time.

True. Very often kids have to mature to a certain age before they see the light or the coach can reach them. Sometimes by then it's too late so they cannot be maximised.

I have had model pupils in the past but they are few and far between.

Sometimes when you are on your eighth lesson of the day and you are stuck with an unreceptive kid who is stubborn about change, you feel like throwing the towel in.

I have become very intuitive about who is who and who to give the best of my time. A coach has to pace himself over the course of a day and concentrate his efforts where he will get the most return. There is little point flogging a dead horse once you have tried everything known to man to motivate a child to improve, and failed.

This is the reality, and it's familiar to every coach who has put countless hours over the course of a career.

When you see a Tiafoe, it's all too easy to put the boot into the coach responsible.

He would certainly have been red flagged over here at development level for the way he serves. You have to believe he would have been over there in the US. The problem could well be Tiafoe himself for all we know.

Perhaps he is just stubborn, difficult...resistant to change. That's all I am saying.


Stotty

[don_budge]

As always the coaching or coach gets the blame. The other side of the coin is that some kids are extremely difficult to teach. They can be stubborn, temperamental and and downright unreceptive. It's likely Tiafoe falls into such a category.

No matter which coach the uncoachables go to, the end result will always remains the same. Reminds of a Talking Heads song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7LFnRh3vs

The first thing to examine is the student. It tells you how far they might go with what they have and whether it's worth the coach unloading 100 percent effort or whether he might be advised to save it for a more receptive student.

Stotty

Very good point. I have three kids.

The oldest tried hard to follow my instructions but it took a long time for things to sink in. I had to work with her repeatedly to do simple things like run to a ball without shaking like a chicken.

The middle one was very athletic but was always tinkering. When I tell him something, he says he did something else which is what really helped him. Has a need to always be right.

The youngest is very coachable. She listens, she absorbs and then she does it. She will do exactly what I tell her the very first time.

Yesterday, we were working on her one handed backhand which she has decided she will use at the age of 11.

I explained that she needs to really finish high. She asked me why and I explained that right now she needs to learn to finish high even though it kind of results in a lob when she hits it. Later as she gets older and stronger she can start to hit closer to the net.

She said "okay" and then kept finishing high.

This is all to teach her to not bring the racket across too early.

It's the first step in a good one handed backhand.

She is very coachable. Makes teaching her much easier and progress much quicker.

The lesson is...they are all different. Aren't they? You have to find what makes them tick in a myriad of different ways. Sometimes without ever finding it. One of the most interesting aspects of the job...and one of the most challenging.

[arturohernandez]

Very good point. I have three kids.

The oldest tried hard to follow my instructions but it took a long time for things to sink in. I had to work with her repeatedly to do simple things like run to a ball without shaking like a chicken.

The middle one was very athletic but was always tinkering. When I tell him something, he says he did something else which is what really helped him. Has a need to always be right.

The youngest is very coachable. She listens, she absorbs and then she does it. She will do exactly what I tell her the very first time.

Yesterday, we were working on her one handed backhand which she has decided she will use at the age of 11.

I explained that she needs to really finish high. She asked me why and I explained that right now she needs to learn to finish high even though it kind of results in a lob when she hits it. Later as she gets older and stronger she can start to hit closer to the net.

She said "okay" and then kept finishing high.

This is all to teach her to not bring the racket across too early.

It's the first step in a good one handed backhand.

She is very coachable. Makes teaching her much easier and progress much quicker.

[stotty]

The serve, the serve. I think there are a couple of things at work here. First, Americans are not sticklers for technique. Here it is all about winning and winning as young as possible. My sense is that Europeans take a slower road and tend to not focus on winning as much. It is more about developing a well-rounded game. I just spent a year in Germany and saw very few fundamental flaws in the top players. There are some exceptions here.

I think that Richard Williams had it right. Kids need to throw a lot of balls. The reports are that he had Serena throwing balls all the time. The racket does crazy things to kids throwing motion. But if kids are taught to throw with balls correctly (i.e. with a loose arm) and then are given non-serving exercises to get all the pieces together then the serve will be better. So my sense is that they should teach Francis to serve by not serving. Rather he should throw footballs, shotputs, and all kinds of other things until his body figures out how to generate speed on its own. He is 16 and there is time. He should play games designed to let his body learn without serving. Then slowly incorporate those elements into the serve. It would be a lot more effective and would get his mind off the idea that his serve is faulty.

Arturo

As always the coaching or coach gets the blame. The other side of the coin is that some kids are extremely difficult to teach. They can be stubborn, temperamental and and downright unreceptive. It's likely Tiafoe falls into such a category.

No matter which coach the uncoachables go to, the end result will always remains the same. Reminds of a Talking Heads song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7LFnRh3vs

The first thing to examine is the student. It tells you how far they might go with what they have and whether it's worth the coach unloading 100 percent effort or whether he might be advised to save it for a more receptive student.

Stotty

[bottle]

I like this and am going to try it for myself. But I've never thrown a shotput much less had one in my hand. Can't wait.

[arturohernandez]

The serve, the serve. I think there are a couple of things at work here. First, Americans are not sticklers for technique. Here it is all about winning and winning as young as possible. My sense is that Europeans take a slower road and tend to not focus on winning as much. It is more about developing a well-rounded game. I just spent a year in Germany and saw very few fundamental flaws in the top players. There are some exceptions here.

I think that Richard Williams had it right. Kids need to throw a lot of balls. The reports are that he had Serena throwing balls all the time. The racket does crazy things to kids throwing motion. But if kids are taught to throw with balls correctly (i.e. with a loose arm) and then are given non-serving exercises to get all the pieces together then the serve will be better. So my sense is that they should teach Francis to serve by not serving. Rather he should throw footballs, shotputs, and all kinds of other things until his body figures out how to generate speed on its own. He is 16 and there is time. He should play games designed to let his body learn without serving. Then slowly incorporate those elements into the serve. It would be a lot more effective and would get his mind off the idea that his serve is faulty.

Arturo

[timaku]

His TOSSING ARM has some BENEFITS not mentioned.

1. It blocks the sun when looking at the sky
2. He has larger "arm path" to drive his tossing arm downward to initiate the service motion and the cartwheeling and tumbling. Like how a thrower's non throwing hand helps them rotate.

[stotty]

Here is a look at Tiafoe's serve now. Higeuras is working on it. Sadly you cannot hear what Higeuras is saying and we only get to see the serve from one angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knbE49o19k

[jasonfrausto]

This serve has flaws, that's obvious. What is also obvious but often forgotten is that he is 16 years old. 16! His game is far from complete and its also far from fully developed. Ivanisevic improved Cilic's serve in his late 20's. Seemed to work out well. I have no doubts Francis' coaches will use John's info and creat e a better motion. Tennis is a long term development sport right? 16 is not where the progress stops. Not even close.

Sorry I missed seeing Jason in NYC.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle,

It would have been good to see you at the Open. There were tons of "comments" about the Tiafoe serve at the Easter Bowl this year as well as the Orange ball last December. I'm sure his coaches have reasons as to why they chose not to make the adjustments earlier but only time will tell. As you said, Tiafoe is young and hopefully the corrections will be made.

Jason

[don_budge]

Francis Tiafoe only needs to find Michelangelo...or John Yandell...or you know who

Would love to hear thoughts on "Your Strokes: Francis Tiafoe: Serve"

A complete overhaul will not fix that. HIs only chance is to study video of himself, and have a side by side view of his attempts to transform some of the worst form I've seen on a serve.

It's not as bad as it looks in slow motion. You see the camera does lie. But John hits the nail on the head as he asserts at the end of the article...

"I would also love to see what happened if he experimented with a better starting position with the shoulders square. And with deeper knee bend, more body turn-- possibly using the platform stance to facilitate those experiments."

...it is only a matter of a better set-up position. A perfect motion must begin with a perfect set-up position. The root cause for any anomalies in this motion probably derive from the set-up position and the subsequent chain of events. Platform is a must in my book. He is extremely relaxed and loose and only needs to turn his shoulders on line with his feet in their starting position before he starts moving them around with the pin-point move. We don't get to see how high he is tossing the ball but I suspect it is too high...one of my major criticisms of the pin-point method.

By adjusting his set-up and shoulders you will get him to where Rick Macci says..."position of the elbow. The elbow should always be shoulder, shoulder, elbow. Should always be...I could draw a straight line...I don't even need to look...there's a straight line through my shoulder, shoulder, elbow. Every time. It's almost like a see-saw...like a teeter totter."


Nothing here that can't be fixed with a few tweeks...the most major change being the stance to facilitate a better weight transfer or shoulder rotation. His beautifully relaxed arm and wrist are indications that this kid has tremendous potential in his motion...much of it that has not been developed or realized. He only needs to get his ducks in a row...so to speak. This kid has a perfect motion somewhere inside of him...it is only up to the right "Michelangelo" to sculpt it out of him.

I think the hip shoulder thing is important but happens naturally when you turn your shoulders. You can really force the creation of the difference. And yeah talent trumps technique to some degree at some levels.

Talent trumps technique only to a degree. There are limits as your use of the word "some" indicates...you must always first attain a certain level of being FC (Fundamentally Correct). When it comes to service motions one should shoot for the highest level...as in perfect. It is the only stroke where you hold your fate ultimately in your own hand.

[GeoffWilliams]

Ivo has: taught Cilic to relax by creating more time with a burst first step off higher split.

Lowered his service toss, sped up his motion, changed the toss to 12 oclock.

Showed him how to attack the net inside out with a fh approach and a cc drop volley or angle off.

Taught him not to think so much.

Project confidence and a greater attack off faster head speed groundies.

Coach of the year.

[johnyandell]

I think the hip shoulder thing is important but happens naturally when you turn your shoulders. You can really force the creation of the difference. And yeah talent trumps technique to some degree at some levels.

Love Cilic's new motion. To me the big difference is the tossing position more to his right. He had a super left position before and hit kickers that lacked speed on his first serve.