The ATP Backhand: Part 1

[klacr]

The two handed backhand has always been a trick stroke for me to personally master. Having always used a one-handed backhand it just seems so foreign to me. However, with the articles on the two hander on this site I have come to practice it on occasion, not to make a change in my game, but to get a better sense of what my students are feeling, or lack there of.

I do find a considerable difference in hitting the type 2 opposed to the type one. My timing and measuring of the ball seems a bit off but on the type 3 I hit it cleaner and with much more depth. I also find that hit hit with a straight/straight arm configuration on my best shots. When I catch the ball late I go into a straight/bent motion. But I find I don't get the same amount of shoulder turn on the type 3 as I do on the type 2. My one handed backhand has a great deep turn on it but can't say the same for the two hander.

I'm actually having some fun trying it out and understanding the intricacies of this stroke that I have been teaching for so long, but never experienced myself as much as I have in the last year or so when I committed to this project on behalf of my players.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

interesting post...

Yup Gordon has a brilliant way, of tying complex, intricate, movements into palatable, usable swing thoughts...

By no means, do i feel compelled to speak for Brian, just a little speculation whether accurate or not..

You mentioned the backswing shape, and in my mind, this is the crux of it...If you were standing to the side of these players (with them facing you after the unit turn) the shoulders would rotate the arms (in the backswing) in polar opposite ways. The girls, shoulders are rotating clockwise, which will tend to an externally rotate the left shoulder, create a deeper (behind the plane) backswing, and limited stretch reflex.

If you look at a guy like DJoker, (again from the side) the shape is more of a counterclock wise, 'smile" pattern, with the left shoulder rotating internally. Notice the position of the forearm at the end of the backswing. It's not angled up, or in a supine position until he pulls the trigger and changes the direction..precisely what leads to balistic stretch/reflex.

Try this, and tell me what you think..In the unit turn, try and keep your left forearm angled down, (do not let it turn up) your left shoulder will rise a bit, will stay internally rotated, and the backswing will tend to be much more linear, and out "in front" of you.

In my mind, how "curved" (behind) or "linear' your backswing is, is more a function of how much the arms rotate initially. If Djoker is your model, you dont want much. In other words, clockwise rotation of your left shoulder, promotes behind the plane, backswings

Anyway, that's my 02 cents, im sure Gordon will clarify, or show that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I doubt anyone in their right mind would accuse you of not knowing what you’re talking about. You seem to have an excellent handle on these things. I get educated when you post. You understand the pulleys and levers of strokes so well.

I don’t use a two-hander. I find the shot impossible. I can never get my arms to work together; they fight each other.

But I have been practising your theory at home, by shadowing the motion. When I do it, I get the Djokovic look/feel to the stroke. I feel you must be right about angling the forearm down and what it subsequently leads to. It causes other things to happen...interesting.

It's the backswing that I find complex in the two-hander, and the arm configurations. The Djokovic backhand looks so simple but it's not so easy to get kids to do it in quite the same way.

[10splayer]

Yes, I am really looking forward to this series. It's amazing how taking the racket back either further or less effects things. How having the racket head above and slightly outside the hands effects things so dramatically.

It's amazing in the Djokovic clip (sixth clip down) how he gets the unit turn to do all the work.

It makes you wonder about the height of the racket head above the hands; will having it slightly higher create more thump; or maybe slightly lower; will a slightly closed racket face in the backswing phase lead to even more still?

Questions, questions...questions I am nowhere near qualified to answer but would love to know the answers to.

I think this series is going to be great, Klacr.

Yup Gordon has a brilliant way, of tying complex, intricate, movements into palatable, usable swing thoughts...

By no means, do i feel compelled to speak for Brian, just a little speculation whether accurate or not..

You mentioned the backswing shape, and in my mind, this is the crux of it...If you were standing to the side of these players (with them facing you after the unit turn) the shoulders would rotate the arms (in the backswing) in polar opposite ways. The girls, shoulders are rotating clockwise, which will tend to an externally rotate the left shoulder, create a deeper (behind the plane) backswing, and limited stretch reflex.

If you look at a guy like DJoker, (again from the side) the shape is more of a counterclock wise, 'smile" pattern, with the left shoulder rotating internally. Notice the position of the forearm at the end of the backswing. It's not angled up, or in a supine position until he pulls the trigger and changes the direction..precisely what leads to balistic stretch/reflex.

Try this, and tell me what you think..In the unit turn, try and keep your left forearm angled down, (do not let it turn up) your left shoulder will rise a bit, will stay internally rotated, and the backswing will tend to be much more linear, and out "in front" of you.

In my mind, how "curved" (behind) or "linear' your backswing is, is more a function of how much the arms rotate initially. If Djoker is your model, you dont want much. In other words, clockwise rotation of your left shoulder, promotes behind the plane, backswings

Anyway, that's my 02 cents, im sure Gordon will clarify, or show that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[stotty]

It's an awesome thing isn't it Stotty? We are constantly learning. We will never learn it all either. The game of tennis keeps changing. The swings, the strokes, the players. It's impossible to keep up. That's what makes it so fun.
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Yes, I am really looking forward to this series. It's amazing how taking the racket back either further or less effects things. How having the racket head above and slightly outside the hands effects things so dramatically.

It's amazing in the Djokovic clip (sixth clip down) how he gets the unit turn to do all the work.

It makes you wonder about the height of the racket head above the hands; will having it slightly higher create more thump; or maybe slightly lower; will a slightly closed racket face in the backswing phase lead to even more still?

Questions, questions...questions I am nowhere near qualified to answer but would love to know the answers to.

I think this series is going to be great, Klacr.

[klacr]

Fascinating, isn't it? I could coach for a thousand years and probably never figure this stuff out for myself. I just wonder from a coaching standpoint how we get talented students to make these positions effectively.

I was trying to find close-ups of Sergi Bruguera's backhand to see where he figured in all this but could only find grainy clips. Bruguera's backhand looks tough to pull off with the racket tip stuck vertically up toward the sky like that. It looks like he has torque, though.

It's an awesome thing isn't it Stotty? We are constantly learning. We will never learn it all either. The game of tennis keeps changing. The swings, the strokes, the players. It's impossible to keep up. That's what makes it so fun.

The Sergi Bruguera backhand is discussed quite often when we talk about backhand technique. I found numerous clips on youtube of him hitting a backhand but none of them are close enough or slow enough and certainly do not possess the quality that we are accustomed to here at tennisplayer.net.

Good article from Brian Gordon. Expecting part 2 to jump into the deep end of the biomechanist pool.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

I could coach for a thousand years and probably never figure this stuff out for myself.

I believe you Slotty.

[stotty]

Phew...

Let's discuss Brian Gordon's first article on The ATP Backhand!

Fascinating, isn't it? I could coach for a thousand years and probably never figure this stuff out for myself. I just wonder from a coaching standpoint how we get talented students to make these positions effectively.

I was trying to find close-ups of Sergi Bruguera's backhand to see where he figured in all this but could only find grainy clips. Bruguera's backhand looks tough to pull off with the racket tip stuck vertically up toward the sky like that. It looks like he has torque, though.

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Brian Gordon's first article on The ATP Backhand!