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Originally posted by klacr
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Becker...Stotty -
That didn't take too long. Good job Stotty. Becker, one of my favorites. Big boy that played tennis.
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca RatonComment
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The us open is not Wimbledon. Which win do you thing he'd rather have? A surface that favored the volley game, or one that did not as much? Any aussie would take Wimbledon. Ask Borg, who never won the us open, which he valued more. A slower hard court allowed Rafter to close and cut more reliably than the grass did. Also slowed down the faster servers enough so he could break.Last edited by GeoffWilliams; 12-21-2014, 06:05 PM.Comment
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Could someone post links to the "slap volley" by a prominent pro player please?Comment
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I hit four snap back volleys for winners against a 6.0 player today. Fun. He tried to run them down and got close but could not, by about 6" each time. Blocked volleys would have been run down and hit short angle cc. This guy is 6'4", black, and fast. Thin. Powerful. Just won a 6.0 tournament. That is an element of joy, being able to snap back power sliced volleys that most of the people on earth have no idea how/what/if it feels.Last edited by GeoffWilliams; 12-23-2014, 06:29 PM.Comment
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The element of joy is the denominator that makes all world class players great. The feeling as children drives them. Any great coach will be a master at eliciting that joy.Last edited by GeoffWilliams; 12-24-2014, 02:14 PM.Comment
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Wow, I'm overwhelmed!!
This site is truly awesome; I've been a subscriber on and off for several years now - and while I visit rather rarely, Don is completely right that I absolutely get more than my money's worth....
Thanks to everyone who replied, with all the various thoughts. I'm still processing the enormous amount of material linked; it's all fantastic and super helpful. I will try to post some video in the next few weeks, but in the meantime, some answers and more info:
- my grip is pretty much pure conti for volley and serve as far as I can tell; when I learned to play (about 5 years ago), my pro encouraged me to use a slightly eastern bh grip - but I migrated over the last few years to conti. My current coach is again (very slightly) encouraging more eastern, but I'm really not a fan - although I seem to hit better with that grip, it doesn't feel right, mostly in that I feel like I'm using a grip change to compensate for some other problem. And eastern on the serve is a loosing deal; loose too much pace even on 2nds - I'm plenty capable of generating all the spin I want / need with the conti grip.
- One of my biggest problems with the volley is exactly 'slapping' at the ball: too much motion, and particularly 'flopping' the head of the racket over the top of the ball instead of stroking it. If there's a way to somehow use this 'slap' productively, please, please, please let me know - would HUGELY appreciate a vid of this 'snap' volley! It's been sooo hard to break this habit - which I have come to believe is really, really bad: every pro / coach I have had tells me so, and their volleys are so nice and smooth.
- My other problem with the volley is that yeah, its really block-y and flat: I'm not getting enough (any!?) underspin, which obviously um, impairs, control....
- I have no issues with swinging volleys; in fact, I greatly prefer the fh swing volley to just about anything - but I overuse it.
- I really think that I need to somehow lengthen the contact time and get more carving on my volley for improved control, but I'm still at a loss on how to work on that exactly. The concepts of 'catching' or 'receiving' has been helpful in this respect, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting the feel.
- All in all, I would say that I play too aggressively for my level of ball stroking ability; I need to focus much more on placement and rallies rather than power and aggressive shots. I have recently transitioned back to clay (well, the green stuff at any rate) from hard courts, and this slow stuff really neutralizes my power advantage.
- I would be honored if I could rise to the level of the current pro women's game! The men's game is completely out of reach for me (as it should be), but the women's game seems a good model for a fairly fit male tennis addict willing to work really hard.
- Lastly, I will mention that I learned to play at TennisPort in NYC (red clay), and I dearly miss watching all those pros and greats playing 'recreationally' (by which I mean non-tourney play - playing for bragging rights rather than money); it was simply amazing to be working on some stroke personally and being able to watch a real pro execute the same stroke / pattern in a real match up close, 5 mins after or before my practice time....
Thanks again for all the posts etc - and apologies for the rather stream-of-consciousness of this reply.
-frankComment
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Most of the replies you receive will have been developed on realizations reached 20 years ago or more.Originally posted by faultsnaces View Post
Here is a suggestion I haven't tried myself yet. If for a forehand ground stroke one uses 30 degrees of body angle like Rory McIlroy addressing a golf ball, one can be hitting through/up the ball even though the fixed shoulder is rotating downward-- depending on position of your arm.
If handle is centered in front of the navel, this can happen.
If racket were open enough because of your grip you could create backspin-- from your body and not your wrist-- even though your forehand volley racket trajectory was level or upward.
(Level or upward was prescribed by the late Vic Braden. It is prescribed now by Luke Jensen, a former French Open Doubles Champion along with his twin brother Murph.)
Want to chop, i.e., send racket down instead of up?
Do same motion but with racket set farther back. I am going to fool around with these ideas myself since one can't really know any result until one tries something.Last edited by bottle; 12-30-2014, 12:57 PM.Comment
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So, what you are saying is tennis is twenty years behind the times? Can you expand on this a bit more?Originally posted by bottle View PostComment
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Am happy to expand upon it. No, tennis is probably tennis in any year and hasn't changed as much as many think. There was an incredible opportunity for innovation 90 years ago just as there is today. With the commentatoes of both eras not really believing in the new until it was thrust in their faces at which time they had to deal with it like it or not.Originally posted by hockeyscout View Post
The opportunity for individual innovation in this game is what really turns me on. If by any chance I don't get to play after my partial knee replacement in mid-February I hope to continue nevertheless with stroke ideas just as tennischiro has continued with his tennis teaching (to understate the case) even though injury keeps himself from competition much less competition at the level he once enjoyed.
So when I say that tennis instructors mostly deal with tried concepts, I don't mean that the concepts are tired, just that they need refreshment and repackaging for best delivery.
I have no illusions that my innovations are true innovations-- every new idea is an old idea. But I love the fact that Valerie Ziegenfuss walked into a bar in Texas-- in the sixties (the sixties as I recall were mostly in the seventies) and walked out of that bar with the order of her forehand reversed.
Despite all of the many occasions on which I've invoked Valerie's name here, I've never heard from her not even fourth-hand. If I want to talk with her I'll probably have to sign up with her agency to buy a house in San Diego-- not too likely.
Excitement is my thing combined with a very low threshold for boredom. The reason I write about something before I try it is that right then I am most excited. After self-feed comes wall, ball machine (if I have free access to one), hitting with a good partner or two and finally competition. Each of these latter steps provides its own excitement, but nothing can compare with the first rush ("Hey, this could actually work!").
The best tennis compliment I guess I've ever received was from a school teacher in the Washington, D.C. area, someone I seemed to play against in tournaments again and again. "John can beat you in many different ways," he said.
But I've lost a lot, even was publicly humiliated on the internet one time after being destroyed by a kid working in the big Winston-Salem pro shop. He was advertised as a 3.5, much to the glee of my enemies (and boy have I had some) when actually he was a 5.5. You see, though not accredited, I do ratings myself just as I did when I was a crew coach.
"Don't think so much about technique," says John Newcomb. Please tell that to somebody other than me, John. I am cognizant of all aspects of tennis other than stroke technique, even mid-court game, but choose to write mostly about stroke technique, the intricacy of which fascinates me.Last edited by bottle; 12-31-2014, 08:01 AM.Comment
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Thanks for the feedback, hopeful we are doing different things that will create the skill set separation needed to win.Comment
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