Question for Brian Gordon on 3D Serve Upward Swing Common Problems

[pvchen]

Hi,

I really enjoyed Brian Gordon’s series on 3D analysis of the serve—very detailed and enjoyable for an egghead like myself. I was hoping Brian or others could clarify a few points on the section, Common Upward Swing Problems. I wonder if Brian could perhaps post some clips or photos of severs with these problems, which would really help to illustrate what he’s trying to describe. Here are my specific questions:

1) "Insufficient Upper Trunk Twist Rotation": I tried to look back on the series, and couldn’t find the definition of “Upper Trunk Twist Rotation”—is this the turning of the shoulders away from the net and then back toward the net? Or is it the lateral trunk bend (the lean causing the shoulders to tilt and trunk to bend as seen from the sideline)? Or something else?
2) “Due to lack of strength or poor technique, the elbow is never correctly positioned during the upward swing. This means it does not move upward and/or forward from the shoulder joint.” Could you post a picture or clip of what this problem looks like?
3) Racket to Arm Angle-I have this problem—like your 3D model, my racket tends not to move past perpendicular to align to the right side of my torso in the racquet drop. What makes the racquet move to the side? There must be some motion dependent effect, since gravity would just pull the racquet to perpendicular, yet it still swings to the side for the pros. Does the position of the wrist affect this? Is it a measure of external shoulder rotation?
Thanks,
Peter

[johnyandell]

Peter,

Thanks for the good words about Brian's articles!

Let's go at this the other way because it will be far more productive for you.
Post some video of your serve and then we can see what you are talking about rather than simply discussing it in the abstract.

If you do that I can give you some feedback and we can try to get some from Brian although he is super super busy now with a burgeoning coaching practice.

Many times what players think is their problem is not the actual problem or is a consequence of some more fundamental problem.

[GeoffWilliams]

Hi,

I really enjoyed Brian Gordon’s series on 3D analysis of the serve—very detailed and enjoyable for an egghead like myself. I was hoping Brian or others could clarify a few points on the section, Common Upward Swing Problems. I wonder if Brian could perhaps post some clips or photos of severs with these problems, which would really help to illustrate what he’s trying to describe. Here are my specific questions:

1) "Insufficient Upper Trunk Twist Rotation": I tried to look back on the series, and couldn’t find the definition of “Upper Trunk Twist Rotation”—is this the turning of the shoulders away from the net and then back toward the net? Or is it the lateral trunk bend (the lean causing the shoulders to tilt and trunk to bend as seen from the sideline)? Or something else?
2) “Due to lack of strength or poor technique, the elbow is never correctly positioned during the upward swing. This means it does not move upward and/or forward from the shoulder joint.” Could you post a picture or clip of what this problem looks like?
3) Racket to Arm Angle-I have this problem—like your 3D model, my racket tends not to move past perpendicular to align to the right side of my torso in the racquet drop. What makes the racquet move to the side? There must be some motion dependent effect, since gravity would just pull the racquet to perpendicular, yet it still swings to the side for the pros. Does the position of the wrist affect this? Is it a measure of external shoulder rotation?
Thanks,
Peter

The forearm has to be whipped,backwards, so that it forces/torques the elbow straight upwards, and the wrist cocked all the way it can go back, and when the frame has reached its heaviest, most rear position, then it's whipped straight upwards, and the shoulder pronates, but the whole motion has to be done, from trophy, to follow through, in the time it takes you say: "One." So we are talking a very fast motion. Sampras also cocked his upper body, against his hips, to provide more whip and a faster motion.

sampras serve oh
fed oh serve
harrison oh serve
becker oh serve