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The 1-2 Rhythm: Forehand

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  • #16
    Originally posted by nickw View Post
    Jack Sock, where to begin! His left hand almost wants to grab the racket back at one stage! The other interesting thing with him is that he does do the left arm hold and separation conventionally a fair bit of the time, appears to be when he's under little pressure when hitting the shot. I wonder if he is aware he uses the two variations?
    Yes, it's an intriguing shot. He does however the stroke does seem to get more conventional on higher balls. A few slowed down clips on TennisTV revealed that. It's on the lower ball where the racket tip points downwards as oppose the the norm where the racket head is raised up and to the right of the hitting arm. It's on the lower ball where the signature Jack Sock style comes into its own.

    I would love to see it live to see how much work he's getting on the ball.
    Last edited by stotty; 11-09-2015, 03:02 AM.
    Stotty

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    • #17
      Originally posted by nickw View Post
      Yep, have to agree Berdych separates a little early and does an excellent job of hitting strong powerful forehands. Keeps that racket up nicely after separation and accelerates from there (unlike Ferrer). Still, inconsistency prevents him from reaching the next level.

      Jack Sock, where to begin! His left hand almost wants to grab the racket back at one stage! The other interesting thing with him is that he does do the left arm hold and separation conventionally a fair bit of the time, appears to be when he's under little pressure when hitting the shot. I wonder if he is aware he uses the two variations?
      nickw, great comments on that player in Great Britain and video analysis. Regarding Ferrer forehand ,I agree, it does seem to lacking some pop. It is at the highest level of consistency, but I think much too often the reason for this lack of pop is that he faces the target too early when hitting it and therfore is not hitting the ball as cleanly as he could, which may cause him to also slightly muscle the shot more than he should. Regarding Sock, I bet he is not aware at all of the slightly different preparations you refer to. Regarding Sock, to me, the way he delays the Brian Gordon transition point on his forehand so late in the shot production, as do Nadal and Federer, is such a strong indicator of the high quality of the shot. Federer is still the technique gold standard. When I see these articles on the forehand, the latest being the 1-2 forehand, I can't help but think where would we be without Fed as an example?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
        Yes, it's an intriguing shot. He does however the stroke does seem to get more conventional on higher balls. A few slowed down clips on TennisTV revealed that. It's on the lower ball where the racket tip points downwards as oppose the the norm where the racket head is raised up and to the right of the hitting arm. It's on the lower ball where the signature Jack Sock style comes into its own.

        I would love to see it live to see how much work he's getting on the ball.
        I have seen in person, saw him play up close in Cincinnati this year. The work he got on the ball was to me clearly stood out vs all the other players I saw. It is simply a scary good weapon. I did not see Nadal play up close. I was sitting directly behind the players when Sock was playing so I could see the action from a player's perspective and really see the spins on the ball.
        Last edited by stroke; 11-09-2015, 04:59 AM.

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        • #19
          http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront4.mov

          This would be a good enough forehand for most players in this forum.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by stroke View Post
            nickw, great comments on that player in Great Britain and video analysis. Regarding Ferrer forehand ,I agree, it does seem to lacking some pop. It is at the highest level of consistency, but I think much too often the reason for this lack of pop is that he faces the target too early when hitting it and therfore is not hitting the ball as cleanly as he could, which may cause him to also slightly muscle the shot more than he should. Regarding Sock, I bet he is not aware at all of the slightly different preparations you refer to. Regarding Sock, to me, the way he delays the Brian Gordon transition point on his forehand so late in the shot production, as do Nadal and Federer, is such a strong indicator of the high quality of the shot. Federer is still the technique gold standard. When I see these articles on the forehand, the latest being the 1-2 forehand, I can't help but think where would we be without Fed as an example?
            Yes, there's definitely got to be a few reasons why Ferrer lacks power, and staying on the ball a little longer could be one too. Agreed on Federer being the benchmark for efficient technique. Everything works together when he hits his shots, there's no over-burdening of muscles, no strain, and for me that's a big part of why he's hardly ever injured.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bottle View Post
              http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront4.mov

              This would be a good enough forehand for most players in this forum.
              Too right, as a player, I would be ecstatic to have the forehand of the guy ranked 1007th, let alone 7th! As a coach, I always believe improvement can be made, and would love to get Ferrer on the court and say, Hey David, lets hold the racket a fraction longer, and try and get more explosiveness in that part 2. And while we're here, stroke wants to see if we can get a cleaner hit from you not looking up too early. What would be the outcome? We'll never know, but my coaching brain will continually ask these questions.

              But of course, you're dead right that as a player, you can achieve great things on the court in many different ways. Often, gearing how you go about it around your own individual circumstances, instead of thinking it's HAS to be done this way, will get the best results too. Most importantly, enjoy playing and the challenge of improving.

              As a player, I have the greatest respect for Ferrer, Berdych, and the hundreds of players who train and compete at an exceptionally high level. As a coach, I always want to try and understand what they could be doing better.

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              • #22
                Fabby.

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                • #23
                  Nick,

                  Stated coolly.

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                  • #24
                    Rhythm adjustment for slow ball

                    Any thoughts on how to adjust one's rhythm on the forehand for a no-pace ball?

                    I play against a guy who is great at placing balls that get you move, but have no pace to work with. I want to hit these balls aggressively, but often end up dumping them into the net or hitting long. Then my rhythm feels messed up and my forehand breaks down. Probably a problem that plagues many club players.

                    Should one slow down the explosive part of the 1-2 rhythm? Stay longer with the slow part of the 1-2 rhythm? Delay or hold the shoulder turn with the non-hitting arm extended?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pvchen View Post
                      Any thoughts on how to adjust one's rhythm on the forehand for a no-pace ball?

                      I play against a guy who is great at placing balls that get you move, but have no pace to work with. I want to hit these balls aggressively, but often end up dumping them into the net or hitting long. Then my rhythm feels messed up and my forehand breaks down. Probably a problem that plagues many club players.

                      Should one slow down the explosive part of the 1-2 rhythm? Stay longer with the slow part of the 1-2 rhythm? Delay or hold the shoulder turn with the non-hitting arm extended?
                      Yes, a common issue at club level for sure, and certainly something I believe 1-2 rhythm can help fix, and you're on the right lines with staying longer on part 1, and delaying the transition that leads to the start of part 2.

                      This is where holding the racket with the opposite hand for longer can be so helpful to maintain rhythm when you have more time. Players want to take the hand off early, and continue the swing, but then the racket loses momentum because it's still waiting to swing to the ball, and this is where timing and technique can then suffer.

                      Try and imagine the amount of time between releasing the opposite hand from the racket, and hitting the ball, remains the same on these slower balls as on ones where you have less time. In other words, keep hold of the racket with the opposite hand for longer.

                      I wouldn't reduce the explosiveness of part 2, as that leads to negative thinking, and in the long run won't help you to become a more advanced player. Work on it in practice, try and build your confidence in the rhythm, then believe in yourself when you next play this guy and you get those slow balls. It won't happen overnight, but hopefully you can make steady progress and become more effective.

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