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A New Teaching System: Forehand: Preparation Part 1

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  • #16
    hey john why always the dark glasses?


    • #17

      Originally posted by captnemo View Post
      hey john why always the dark glasses?
      It's called "Robert DeNiro Syndrome".
      Last edited by don_budge; 02-20-2016, 10:23 PM.


      • #18

        No itz because Nick B. is my idol.

        No really it's because on the paradise court the sun is directly in my eyes and I can't read the teleprompter. But it is true those are cool glasses.


        • #19
          The Shades...

          Ray Ban?
          Last edited by don_budge; 02-21-2016, 12:03 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...


          • #20
            Shades aside…Preparation is the mantra of a tennis player

            The discussion of the sunglasses led me to take another look at your video. Getting into position is so important to emphasize to the beginner and also to practice as a player at any level.

            Good preparation to go forwards is what enables a player to take a good, balanced and well timed swing at the incoming ball…and not by pointing at the incoming ball itself as you point out.

            A couple of thoughts…

            Discussion of preparation for low, short balls as well as high, deep balls and how they might differ. Perhaps a little elaboration on balls that the player must run to get into position. Preparation on the run? The non-racquet hand may be thought of as pointing at the point where the player intends to make contact with the ball.

            Your emphasis on completion of the backswing as or before the ball is bouncing is a very important point. The player should be fully prepared to go forwards when the ball is bouncing.

            Your initial demonstration of a backswing that you are not recommending is a very good example of what not to do and what virtually every beginner does "naturally". They swing the racquet back using only the arm itself. This leads to a couple of problems…usually the beginner will miscalculate the speed of the incoming ball and will be late. At the same time if the backswing is accomplished solely with the backward motion of the arm the body will not be in position.

            I am looking forwards to the next segment…transition from backswing to forward swing is the most crucial aspect of a swing. I am not sold on the series by the English gent who is advocating the 1-2 rhythm method…but I have managed to keep quiet thus far. I am curious as to how you are going to verbalize and further illustrate this crucial aspect of the swing. I suspect it will be very sound fundamentally speaking.
            Last edited by don_budge; 02-21-2016, 10:11 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...


            • #21
              The Two Handed Forehand…Pancho Segura

              Originally posted by bottle View Post
              Continuous motion comes if one separates hands immediately. Face it, one can aid turn of the body by hanging on to racket with opposite hand forever or doing that some then pointing across or just by pointing across.
              This is a really very tough point to get across to beginners and one often sees the bad technique that this evolves into.

              For students that have a difficult time with the involvement of the non-hitting hand I advocate the two hand forehand…as a training tool. One of the physical reasons to get this hand involved is to engage the opposite side of the body as it "pulls" the racquet towards the ball initially. If you fail to engage this opposite side of the body you get a motion that is decidedly too much arm oriented.

              John…what do you think of using the two hand forehand as a training tool to get the student to utilize the other side of the body as well as the non-hitting arm itself?

              For a right handed player I have them use the left index finger and thumb to grip the bottom of the handle.
              Last edited by don_budge; 02-21-2016, 12:12 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...


              • #22
                I think it's a great idea, a way of getting the student to learn what his maximum of body turn is. Once he understands this, though, I don't see what the hang-up is in learning the various options. There are a lot of them, but most people just do what they do. Resulting in loss of potential (in many cases) in my view.

                Once you know how far the shoulders can turn, you can try different racket and opposite hand positions, all utilizing the memorized maximum shoulders turn, at least for maximum shots. Body turn would appear to be where the real thunder comes from, but as so ably has been pointed out, we frequently don't want thunder but finesse.

                But I am just as power hungry as anybody else, and power is a single and separate subject that interests me a lot.

                And yes, I subscribe to your notion that control is power, so maybe I should say pace and huge spin and whatever else great racket head speed can offer, and once the student understands that, no, masters it (if that ever happens), he should proceed to the next level and work on some softies.

                Or start with softies and develop "big shots" later-- don't know that one sequence is better than another when contemplating the development of Andre Agassi who supposedly started out with his father's encouragement hitting the ball over two or five fences.

                From my own experience in crew coaching (which has recently renewed itself somewhat through a growing friendship with Dick Bell, Head Coach of the Detroit Boat Club, the nation's oldest), I would say soft strokes first, hard strokes later-- one of several reasons I liked coaching beautiful women so much-- they seemed to understand this point better, which cut the learning curve down by about a year over huge macho men who just wanted to be bulls in a china shop from day one.

                Like a good friend, Dick has given me a reading list, so that I am filling in with rowing books I may have missed in the last few decades. It goes way beyond THE BOYS IN THE BOAT, I'll tell you that, although I am one of the millions who likes that current book about to be an awful movie probably very much.

                To continue this subject of soft strokes and hard, I'm sure that after the initial learning progression, all education becomes circular rather than linear (like growing ground stroke technique), i.e., goes round and round, which leads to irresponsible accusation that one is a Sisyphus who will never get anywhere.

                But round and round is just fine. People simply don't do it enough, then declare that all golf, tennis, rowing and jai-alai articles along with the advanced lessons in each discipline are useless. That whining is the cry of hacks.

                You do go round and around but one day if you stick with it there is a difference, a mental leap, a connecting of the dots (and thanks so much for your repeated use of that expression and allusions to the great black writer Ferdinand Celine. Oh, sorry, he wasn't a black or brown man but a white physician and Dearborn auto worker? Then I must have meant the word "black" in some other but very positive way).
                Last edited by bottle; 02-21-2016, 10:57 AM.


                • #23
                  bottled comments...

                  Originally posted by bottle View Post
                  Once you know how far the shoulders can turn…

                  But I am just as power hungry as anybody else, and power is a single and separate subject that interests me a lot.

                  And yes, I subscribe to your notion that control is power...

                  You do go round and around but one day if you stick with it there is a difference, a mental leap, a connecting of the dots (and thanks so much for your repeated use of that expression and allusions to the great dark writer Ferdinand Celine).
                  Good bottle…if not great. Golfers talk a lot about distance and how to maximize distance. You will never hear a golfer worth his salt say swing harder…to a man they will tell you to turn the shoulders and never let the hands get ahead of the shoulders…until they do. You turn the shoulders and the hips will follow…if the feet are in proper position. I advocate the golfer stance as well…as a foundation. The closed or semi-closed stance…for those that are uncomfortable thinking in terms of closed stance.

                  As power hungry as the next guy. That's a good one! Control is power…not only in tennis. Think relationships. Think Machiavelli.

                  Thank you for acknowledging my repeated references to Ferdinand Celine. Of course he is a dark writer…I believe we may have gotten the notion of dark or black comedy from him. I find him rather amusing in his seemingly pessimistic musings (read realistic).

                  My favorite though was…"one of several reasons I like coaching beautiful women". I get you bro. One of several reasons…that's a safe way of putting it. Delicately.
                  Last edited by don_budge; 02-21-2016, 10:55 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...


                  • #24
                    Yeah we will probably do a whole new series on movement. This one sticks with the fundamentals.
                    The left side is critical and a lot of people don't ever get that. I find though that the use of video and physical modeling solves the problem. I also like to have players develop the neutral stance because that helps with the turn.
                    I see where the twohander could accomplish some of this but I don't use it myself--think it would just complicate and confuse.


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