How do you use this site, really?

[hockeyscout]

That guy with a "winning plan" - I think his name was Nate, well he raised a good point. He asked in kind whether or not I read any of the articles here. Well, yes, I do.

So, I ask,

(1) why do you use this site?

(2) I want to see what you guys think about the way I use it, and comment.

Everyone on this site is always talking about watch the strokes, see how pro's hit the ball, etc.

And, I think thats not the best use of the site.

I watch every stroke here, and every instructor, and I think, "how this info and visual video by used defensively" to get to position and to teach players on the court in that specific match to make the best read 9 out of 10 times before the opponent.

Hitting the ball - everyone can do it.

Ball feed players, and there everyone is great.

Teach a player to read the opponent, get him to the ball properly under control and I think you will have a world beater in all scenarios.

So, the task of tennis from a coaching perspective is get your player to read the game, and understand what the other player is doing technically.

If you can get to the ball 9 out of 10 times better than your opponent on the defensive read department, and have an extra millisecond, that is the difference in any match.

When I watch the slow motion videos here, and the instructors sharing there thoughts, I tend to think:

- This is not what I teach (A) - what I do is anti-technique (maybe I am right, maybe not, we will see).

- But, (B), and most important of all, how can I use teaching methodology of every coach on this forum and main site (plus all the videos) to find a way to understand the stroke the way they teach it, so I can guide a defence against it?

So, when I watch these clips or see an article my goal is to sort out a plan to use what they preach against them (and force them to follow there own set out rules with the hope they are dogmatically based, and fixed in stone if I am lucky).

I want to know:

- what giveaways is the player showing?

- when does this player sell out?

- what can be done to make a quick read?

- how can you use a player technique and tendencies against them?

When a coach talks here, I think, how can I beat them at that game they are teaching (everyone is teaching something that some player will buy into, and of course you need to play that player one day).

I love goalies in soccer and hockey. Think about it. They know what shooters will do. They make great reads, and they react on instinct. Imagine a site that explained how athletes shoot, and how coaches teach them to do it? That would be invaluable.

Thats kind of where I see this site as useful.

This site is a blueprint for how to play against an opponent, and learning how to read opponents before the ball hits the strings of the racket (that millisecond, which Roger reads so wonderfully I might add).

What do you think?

I read a book once by the great Russian hockey goalie Vladislav Tretiak and it was truly amazing how he understood everything a shooter would do, and could envision and read everything they did. Shooters said he'd literally take over there mind, and they'd lose there mojo.

One thing I don't see here at all is, how to read your opponent, how to detect giveaways and sell-outs.

We should discuss that a bit!

Thoughts?

[bottle]

Hero with a Thousand Faces

Yup recognition is a huge subject. But so is the quest for great strokes. A player with great strokes will try to hone his powers of recognition since he has the goods to back it up.

Most people however have extremely ordinary, old-fashioned and haphazard strokes, all arm. They could learn
a whole lot here or any place if they really wanted to.

I love the choice this website offers right now between science based articles, limited to tennis, limited in focus,
with that being their strength-- and those with a more poetic, expansive, all inclusive approach more apt to work
with intelligent individuals (joke). I don't mind at all that both approaches are co-existent within the same website.
I do think, regardless, that a player who has learned to grab onto an oncoming ball before he flings it with topspin is apt to beat the whackjob swinging long into a big collision.

You, hockeyscout, probably are correct in your inference that most people can't learn much by glomming into videos of some top player hitting a ball. But that is where the educational articles come in. With education, a player can learn to read those videos better.

On recognition again how much of it remains inborn (Agnieska Radawanska), how much can be learned through tips, scouting, etc.?

[hockeyscout]

Hero with a Thousand Faces

Yup recognition is a huge subject. But so is the quest for great strokes. A player with great strokes will try to hone his powers of recognition since he has the goods to back it up.

On recognition again how much of it remains inborn (Agnieszka Radwanska), how much can be learned through tips, scouting, etc.?

That is a neat assessment in your first line. I like it. Beautifully said. ++++, I like so much.

[gzhpcu]

Those with inborn talent don't need a site like this. For us ordinary mortals endlessly seeking improvement, there is lots of good information, checked by John before being released.

I use both articles and videos in attempting to improve. Seems like an endless quest.

i use my video camera a to check progress, or lack of progress. I pull clips into the Hudl app on my iPad and make comparisons. Also, I like forums for opinions.

I just wish this site and today's technology had been available when I was competing regionally and nationally.

[nickw]

Interesting topic hockeyscout. I’m only 38, and feel that I still have so much to learn. I’ve been using this site for 10 years, primarily to increase my knowledge and understanding of tennis, and how best to teach it.

It’s a good point that bottle made about what you can get from watching all the slow-mo’s. The more articles I read, and the more coaches viewpoints I hear, the better I’m then able to watch high speed footage and understand what I’m seeing.

Onto reading your opponent: This is an area that I only have a basic understanding of. Whenever I try and find opinions or facts about how to read your opponent, whether I’m talking to other coaches, former or current professionals, I have never received back any clear and definitive answer. It’s one of those topics, as you say, that isn’t addressed enough.

Experience must be a big factor, which would explain why some of these real old-timers are saying they know exactly what is coming next before there are any obvious clues.

You often hear, when new players break into the top tier of tournaments, that they have a slight advantage because the established players haven’t seen them play before. You also often hear that this period usually only lasts a few months before the said established pro’s have ‘worked out’ the new guy. But what does this mean? Have they worked out what his favourite plays are, what his ‘go to’ shots are in certain situations? Or have they worked out what visual clues his body movements are giving away, in order to detect where he’s going to serve, or where he’s hitting the next ball?

If players are able to spot these visual clues earlier than their opponents would like, then surely players are also working hard to execute their strokes in a way that doesn’t give off these visual clues? Who’s winning this tug of war, and how?

Hockeyscout, I know from another interesting thread recently that you feel the split step will become extinct as players find more efficient ways to react and move. I agree that the split step is often a burden on most players, they time it late and they lose valuable time in their quest to get to the next ball properly. This is where I begin, when it comes to teaching players to read and react to the next shot as early and efficiently as possible. I’m using the camera to video split step timing, I’m pushing for earlier split steps, and demanding players to develop their skill to see that ball as early as possible from their opponents racket.

Then comes understanding the percentage plays, and anticipating based on those. After that, the tendencies and visual clues of the individual opponent they are facing. This is so tough though. Every individual is different, and will have their own tendencies and patterns, as well as visual clues. These visual clues are happening in a tiny time frame, in-experienced players will become far too distracted if they are trying to spot them, they won’t pick them up quickly enough. Have experienced players ever specifically worked on these skills, or are they simply developed through the vast experience they have gained over many years of hitting balls and playing matches? What more can a coach do to develop these skills faster in a player?

Hockeyscout, very interesting to read about how you use this site, very interesting indeed. So you are reading articles on method/technique, or watching a new stroke, and then working out how you can counter-act that method/technique, what can be done to take away its benefits. I’d love to know from your experience, if the solutions you come up with are always unique to the specific method/technique you are analysing, or are there some solutions that you have found to work best and for a wider range of techniques/methods. Hope this makes sense, maybe there isn’t a specific answer? Perhaps you could give one example based on a recent article or stroke?

It would indeed be great to discuss this topic more, and hear opinions from others.

[johnyandell]

I created the stroke archives as a research resource. Virtually every article we do, I search around the compendium of players to find examples for our writers--and for myself. In all the time we have published there isn't a question I have had in my own articles or about them that I couldn't find the answer for by searching through the archives.

[bottle]

The answer is there, isn't it? That's why anything that can help more readers and subscribers correctly interpret
those videos is invaluable.

[nickw]

I created the stroke archives as a research resource. Virtually every article we do, I search around the compendium of players to find examples for our writers--and for myself. In all the time we have published there isn't a question I have had in my own articles or about them that I couldn't find the answer for by searching through the archives.

The stroke archives are the best, they've helped me answer every question I've ever had.

The answer is there, isn't it? That's why anything that can help more readers and subscribers correctly interpret
those videos is invaluable.

The answer must be there, but this is one area where I'm not backing myself to fully understand what I'm seeing.

Clearly there's not enough inspiration to discuss further, even the thread starter has gone quiet!

[hockeyscout]

The entertaining spectacle of USA elections, fishing and the arrival of 100 tins of cherry skoal from Canada have been of more interest to me as of late.

[don_budge]

How I Came to tennisplayer.net...

I joined tennisplayer.net on December 31, 2009. I googled for the Don Budge backhand. That led me here. The site asked me for a user name...the rest is history. I found the video archives but I think that I skimmed it once or twice and didn't find it very compelling at first. I studied Roger Federer a bit. Initially I looked at some of the articles but for the most part the subscription wasn't being used all that much.

On March 21, 2011 I made my first post. Here I am 3,719 posts later. Over the entirety of my subscribing I have averaged exactly 1.50 posts a day and that is without posting for the fist year and three months. But it isn't quantity that determines value. It is quality.

I use the forum as a backboard. To hit against and evaluate. I enjoy the feedback...positive and negative alike. It serves me well...its a hobby. I love it with a passion. I never say that this poster is right or wrong. I say that the object of the game is to state your case. State it clearly...with clarity. My reason for editing is always "for clarity's sake". It's my quest. Connect the dots...that is what I try to do. I try to connect the three little dots. I am trying to make sense of the nonsense.

tennisplayer.net is like a home away from home. it's like a clubhouse where some of the guys get together and talk like men. There doesn't seem to be any women and that is ok with me. There is nothing wrong with the boys having a place to go where they have to watch their language because a member of the fairer sex is present. That being said there have been women here and they are more than welcome...if they have the balls to hang with us. Afterall...what is it that the Queen said? She said..."If I had balls I'd be King."

I just love women...don't you? I have a hard time thinking of Hillary Clinton as a woman though.