Interactive Forum November 2016: Angie Kerber Forehand

[johnyandell]

Angie Kerber Forehand

Was Angelique Kerber’s forehand the difference in her U.S. Open championship? Among other things, yes. And especially the lefty forehand down the line. In this fascinating high speed footage we see her hit from all three stances—semi-open, neutral, and open.

If you sensed there was something special about her down the line forehand but you weren't sure what— check this footage out. On the third forehand hit from a wide position down the line, watch her stance and body rotation. In fact watch her body rotation on all three.

Is it a so-called ATP forehand? Not in the pure sense of the hitting side backswing. But watch her full turn and right arm stretch and then watch what happens to her torso in the forward swing. And one more thing, look at her grip—is it the most conservative of all the top women? How does that enter into the equation?

As I said, fascinating—the endless technical combinations of elements in great pro technique.

[johnyandell]

MP4 Version - Angie Kerber Forehand

[klacr]

Love Angie Kerber!
Hard work on the conditioning front and a belief in her game catapulted her into the #1 slot. 2016 has been an amazing year for her. Aussie open title, US Open title, Finalist at Wimbledon, Silver medal at Olympics.

I met Kerber about three years ago. Was introduced to her through a mutual friend that played the tour and now coaching on tour. She was nice, down to earth and very sweet. Never did I think she would get to #1 and at the time, I don't think she did either. I'm happy she is having all the success she is.

So where's the extreme semi western grip?...there is none! Love the conservative grip.
Body rotation looks to be a bit early, her shoulders are wide open to the net at contact with a clear double bend, extension, hand/arm rotation and elbow pointing out towards target on finish. This is some great video. So many elements. Germany has a new star. I still miss Steffi.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[johnyandell]

Kyle excellent! I changed it to right arm stretch in the copy.

[klacr]

Why is no one else jumping on this thread? These clips are great.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[100169]

This is a hybrid of the ATP forehand that Christoph in tennis oxygen talked about a few years ago. Notice the shortened backswing. The grip is a major hindrance , notice how she muscles the ball rather that creating the kinetic chain whip you see with the men.

[johnyandell]

100169,
Agree it's close to an ATP forehand. How is the grip a hindrance? Basically the same as Fed and she likes to take the ball early.

[sjhara]

First of all, I totally enjoy watching Kerber play and am so impressed by her athletic court coverage and shot-making ability.
So for me the “issues” start with the hands-in a way, an imbalance in the hands that affects the way the stroke unfolds and that does not allow her to fully tap into her athletic movement.
I think the left hand is too active in the beginning move, and the right hand is too inactive, or not engaged enough, in this beginning move.
While I think Kerber’s forehand is certainly compact and possibly more “reliable”, this imbalance makes the entry into the slot smaller and somewhat cramped, and the extension through and release after the slot reduced. It also limits the extension of the right hand and arm across the body and interferes with the natural coiling and uncoiling that is more evident in the forehand of Justin Henin-Hardenne.
I also think there is what I would call a premature gripping and possible hardening of the hands which gives the sense of muscling. In Henin-Hardenne’s forehand there is a “searching” for her grip (see her finger activity in video of her forehand) which I think lends itself to a more flowing and less muscled movement.

[Guest]

John, her grip is a hindrance because she is forced to hit flat. It cant be compared to Fed. My guess is she had a father coach who taught it too her and couldn't change it , later on . She suffers from the lack of the stretch shortening cycle. She makes up for it from brute force and fitnes and Her movement is second to none. She is technically weak on the serve also .perhaps her being a lefty is her saving grace. She wins 2 titles and suddenly the fickle try and model her. Let's look at her record against williams to put things into perspective. Perhaps you can put more light on the subject as the why you think she is so technically great and how this can benefit upcoming juniors technically.

[johnyandell]

No one can be compared to Fed! But her grip is the same. I guess you must be seeing things I am not. I don't necessarily go by strict "player models" but I like her big turn and left arm stretch, her relatively compact backswing--probably more compact than Serena and with a better left arm stretch. I certainly see a lot of juniors without those critical elements. Who else has a view on this??

[klacr]

Kerber's hands, similar to Berdych, separate a bit earlier compared to their contemporaries. Its does seem as if she is muscling the ball but that may also be due to the fact that her right (non-dominant) arm/hand separates farther from her left hand and arm (beyond shoulder width apart). Remember this gem of an article...https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._together.html

Her technical "imperfections" and aesthetics aside, she's #1 in the world for a reason, and it can't all be attributed to just speed and fitness. She clearly has a talent for striking the ball. At 3-All, 30-all in the 3rd set of the US Open final vs. Karolina Pliskova, she hit this stunner. Point starts at 10:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flNJMoiJ93Y

That counts for something. Kerber has admitted to her forehand, especially her forehand down the line as being the most heavily improved shot in her game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[seano]

You don't see the effortless type 3 forehand that you see in the men. Angie's forehand certainly looks to take more effort than needed. Her elbow position and how quickly she separates her arms doesn't lend itself to independent arm motion.

If you look at her elbow position at the moment she releases the racquet from her right hand, you will see that her elbow is close to her body and her arm is straight up and down (vertical). I love when Macci talks about nudging with your elbow in the backswing, that helps with creating a lag with the racquet when you go into the "flip". Because her elbow is close to her body, she never really allows for as much stretch as she is capable of. Look again at her elbow position at impact, still too close and you can see tension in her arm muscles and her face and the effort required.

With separating her arms too quickly, if you compare how long she holds the coil compared to Federer (I know no one compares to Federer) Angie lets go much earlier with the opposite arm and ultimately doesn't again put the muscles on stretch like she could. The beauty of Roger's swing is how fluid and effortless it is. Angie doesn't create the elastic energy and lag that she possibly could.

With all that being said, she's a hell of a player and I would love to have her forehand. She's great to watch and has been a great presence at the top of the women's game.

[klacr]

You don't see the effortless type 3 forehand that you see in the men. Angie's forehand certainly looks to take more effort than needed. Her elbow position and how quickly she separates her arms doesn't lend itself to independent arm motion.

If you look at her elbow position at the moment she releases the racquet from her right hand, you will see that her elbow is close to her body and her arm is straight up and down (vertical). I love when Macci talks about nudging with your elbow in the backswing, that helps with creating a lag with the racquet when you go into the "flip". Because her elbow is close to her body, she never really allows for as much stretch as she is capable of. Look again at her elbow position at impact, still too close and you can see tension in her arm muscles and her face and the effort required.

With separating her arms too quickly, if you compare how long she holds the coil compared to Federer (I know no one compares to Federer) Angie lets go much earlier with the opposite arm and ultimately doesn't again put the muscles on stretch like she could. The beauty of Roger's swing is how fluid and effortless it is. Angie doesn't create the elastic energy and lag that she possibly could.

With all that being said, she's a hell of a player and I would love to have her forehand. She's great to watch and has been a great presence at the top of the women's game.

Great Post seano.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

I think Kerber's forehand is good. She can hit all the spots but I particularly like her forehand up the line. In his regard she is slightly unusual as most lefties adopt an incessantly cross court forehand, understandably. Kerber can really catch players out with her up the line shot. She seems to stay on the hitting side of the body on every shot she hits (some don't when trying to hit a really big one). She is perhaps a little tucked in with her elbow but she is closer than most women to an ATP. But compactness by itself counts for a lot in my view as it leads to greater reliability, even if girls cannot make the full step to the ATP.

Stotty

[Guest]

Could someone please comment on this:
It seems that 2 of the best immerging forehands in the game could possibly be Kerber and Jack sock. Both these players have unorthodox tecniques , that most academies would change in a heartbeat. As a corollary , the USTA or PTR would not have this in their Bible either. So does teaching mainstream tecnique hinder and handicap an emerging player or does tennis need mavericks who take a new approach but understand the laws of physics. It's awful boring to watch without the top 5. Who can turn the Circus into the cirque do soleil?