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Interactive Forum Apri 2017: Alexander Zverev Forehand

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  • Interactive Forum Apri 2017: Alexander Zverev Forehand

    Alexander Zverev Forehand

    Here we go! Another version of the high power forehand shared by the new young players. We’ve looked at Dominic Thiem (Click Here). We've looked at Jack Sock (Click Here). We've looked at Nick Kyrgios (Click Here).

    So wait, was it established that the latest evolution was to turn and point the racket tip more or less directly at the opponent in the backswing? (Or has that move been around forever?) Does pointing the tip accelerate the backward rotation of the hitting arm for more explosive forward rotation? Or not? Is Zverev leaving power on the table? That would be scary. What do you say?

    Two other factors to ponder: the backswing staying on the hitting side regardless of the way the racket tip points. And the incredible combination of wiper and extension

    Last edited by johnyandell; 04-01-2017, 02:46 PM.

  • #2
    Alexander Zverev Forehand

    Last edited by johnyandell; 04-01-2017, 02:44 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by johnyandell View Post

      So wait, was it established that the latest evolution was to turn and point the racket tip more or less directly at the opponent in the backswing? (Or has that move been around forever?) Does pointing the tip accelerate the backward rotation of the hitting arm for more explosive forward rotation? Or not? Is Zverev leaving power on the table? That would be scary. What do you say?

      Two other factors to ponder: the backswing staying on the hitting side regardless of the way the racket tip points. And the incredible combination of wiper and extension
      I don't think he's leaving power on the table, same as Del Potro isn't. I have been visiting this website every day for a long time now and one thing that has been truly hard to quantify is the optimum elements responsible for gaining maximum power...be that any stroke. More lag say some, simplicity say others. When I was a kid my dad told me tennis is a game of timing. He was probably right. Whatever style of forehand you choose, just be sure to master it and time it to the best of your ability.

      I was at Wimbledon some years ago and witnessed one of Del Po's bullet forehands. I can tell you that ball was moving bloody quick. I don't think anyone could possible hit one harder. The amazing thing was he didn't appear to be swinging that quick. The preparation and stroke production seemed quite slow.

      That said, Zverev does actually tip the racket forward quite a bit. He just does it later, during the backswing rather than right at the start. Does it matter where the creation of lag starts?
      Last edited by stotty; 04-02-2017, 02:04 PM.
      Stotty

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      • #4
        It looks to me that when he does his racquet drop after his left hand seperates from the racquet, he puts his wrist in a kind of ulnar deviation position, similar to what Sam Querry and Jack Sock do. This may somewhat turbo charge his flip and laying back of his wrist on the movement to the strike.

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        • #5
          The beginning of Zverev’s forehand is more in the Federer and Dimitrov model.
          The difference though is in the grips. For me Federer’s and Dimitrov’s look more
          comfortable, more fluid because of the less extreme grips-Zverev’s looks less comfortable because his grip is more to the western side. So in it’s own way as it is a hybrid of Federer and say Kyrgios.
          And it is scary to imagine but I do think Zverev’s forehand could be not only bigger, but more aggressive as well-in the Sock and Kyrgios range, if the beginning were more in keeping with his grip, but how much can a player, should a player of change at this point in is game?

          I think some version of the move has been around forever. Sampras has his version as does Agassi.

          I think this also points to the difference between how we are taught and how we learn. To me it seems that Zverev’s forehand has been taught, and his backhand has been learned. It would be interesting to find out how he developed both shots.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
            Alexander Zverev Forehand

            So wait, was it established that the latest evolution was to turn and point the racket tip more or less directly at the opponent in the backswing? (Or has that move been around forever?) Does pointing the tip accelerate the backward rotation of the hitting arm for more explosive forward rotation?

            I am struck how the motion of the golf backswing gets the "tip" of the club pointing in the direction of the target. The subsequent motion of the right hand largely responsible for the "club head speed" that largely determined the potential energy of the ball in flight.

            Only recently have I toyed with this idea of pointing the tip of the racquet on my forehand at my opponent. The results were like white light...inspiration. I will following up on this action to see if it is consistently repeatable...for me.

            I wish that I was right handed...as a tennis player. Perhaps then I could generate the speed in my golf swing that I aspire to. Maybe I should train myself right handed on the forehand to develop this motion. Is it like pitching underarmed...fast pitch?

            don_budge
            Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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            • #7
              Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
              Alexander Zverev Forehand

              So wait, was it established that the latest evolution was to turn and point the racket tip more or less directly at the opponent in the backswing? (Or has that move been around forever?) Does pointing the tip accelerate the backward rotation of the hitting arm for more explosive forward rotation? Or not? Is Zverev leaving power on the table? That would be scary. What do you say?

              Two other factors to ponder: the backswing staying on the hitting side regardless of the way the racket tip points. And the incredible combination of wiper and extension

              This forehand is certainly more conventional than some of the other young guns, and i like it. Sock and Kyrgios have mastered the timing of their forehands, but for me their technique is more difficult to master.

              I think the racket tip pointing forwards definitely adds acceleration, as long as that position is maintained until the racket starts building momentum for the forwards swing. Zverev appears to have the best of both, as Stotty points out, he points the racket tip forward a bit later in the backswing. Maybe he could get more power, but does he need it? Any technical tweaks that would result in more power, would take away from what appears to be a very smooth reliable forehand swing. That could lead to additional power being negated by increased unreliability, especially under pressure.

              The backswing staying on the hitting side, and the powerful combo of wiper and extension, for me, are excellent hallmarks of a top class forehand. These elements are amongst the most important to develop in players when teaching the forehand.

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              • #8
                Nick,
                Logical balanced comments!

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                • #9
                  I suppose I need to apply for rehabilitative video viewing. I don't see the "pointing the racquet tip at the opponent" unless referring to Zverev's ready position. At what instant is this pointing otherwise to be seen?

                  As for cocking the racquet slightly in the direction of the opponent while taking the racquet back, even Fed does that. Players I've talked to assume that the purpose is just this, to increase the distance that the hitting hand can travel before it accelerates the more deeply lagged racquet head, given a very loose wrist.

                  It just implies that at the moment the hitting forearm, wrist, and racquet finally are yanked forward (however smoothly....) by their connection to the shoulder/ub, the faster the acceleration will be at the catching-up moment, and the more taut the relevant forearm and shoulder muscles will be, leading to a faster hit. Views vary...
                  Last edited by curiosity; 04-20-2017, 11:36 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Well it's tilted in that direction and yes more like Fed. Good hypothesis re acceleration. Great if someone actually measure it...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
                      Well it's tilted in that direction and yes more like Fed. Good hypothesis re acceleration. Great if someone actually measure it...
                      Ah, got it! One had said "point" at the opponent. I got confused. Tilting the racquet toward the opponent a bit seems to me to have been standard for a long time. It is less apparent if the player takes the racquet back somewhat open or looping. The clean vertical takeback allows it to be very visible. I do it, and have felt it allows just that much more momentum in the racquet head going into lag. That not only boosts lag but seems to me to also enable deeper more aggressive ESR if/when it is wanted. What the tipping does has to vary by grip, and I only play extreme eastern....

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