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Ultimate Fundamentals: The One Handed Backhand

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  • johnyandell
    started a topic Ultimate Fundamentals: The One Handed Backhand

    Ultimate Fundamentals: The One Handed Backhand

    Would love to hear your thoughts on "Ultimate Fundamentals: The One Handed Backhand"!

  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by bdole View Post
    Anecdotally I will agree with the theory that the two-handed return is better. So many highlights of Nishikori, Agassi, Murray, and Djokovic neutralizing or hitting outright winners off powerful first serves. I don't have that mental image of any current one-hander...and historically maybe only J.Mac's block back return.
    Ditto...this is the image I have.

    The two-hander is truly a great tool for returning serve. I cannot think of one one-hander that can compete with the players you mention. Once in the rally it's a pretty even contest. I guess the one-hander generally offers more variety and usually, nearly always actually, better execution of slice.

    The biggest mystery in tennis is why so few players used a two-hander prior to the seventies. Rackets were far heavier and junior rackets did not exist. The urge to use two hands could never have been greater. So why didn't young children adopt the two-hander? My theory is that the game initially was game for adults and the games' earliest great players, by coincidence or otherwise, emerged one-handed. From that point it may have quickly became instilled as the best way to do it. Youngsters who subsequently came to the game may have had their impulses to use two hands coached out of them by older more experienced players who had succeeded with the one-hander. All theory on my part, but I would love to know for sure.



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  • bdole
    replied
    ^^ Agreed. One-handers should return that way. The mechanics are too different between the one and two-hander.

    Anecdotally I will agree with the theory that the two-handed return is better. So many highlights of Nishikori, Agassi, Murray, and Djokovic neutralizing or hitting outright winners off powerful first serves. I don't have that mental image of any current one-hander...and historically maybe only J.Mac's block back return.

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    There is an assumption that a player can naturally develop either backhand--and then the further argument that the two handed return is better. That assumption is false I think. If you are a natural one-hander you should have a one handed backhand--and a one handed return. Even at the pro level there really isn't a way to prove either argument. We can't clone Djokovic or Murray and train them with one hand--or Federer with two. Further, for the 99.99999 percent it's a question of having a backhand, any backhand. A slice backhand return is the greatest ever if you aren't playing on the tour. So again I think it's a question of developing the most natural stroke.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    I've given my login to a few people for temporary use over the years. It was a smart post--I just disagreed with it... now come on whoever you are let us know!
    We are divided on the one-hander v two-handed on the return of serve. don_budge thinks one thing...and I think another. I thought the ghost poster had a good point. What exactly did you disagree with?

    I think the two-hander can brace better and deal better - more aggressively - with high bouncing balls on the second serve.
    Last edited by stotty; 04-30-2017, 01:11 PM.

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    I've given my login to a few people for temporary use over the years. It was a smart post--I just disagreed with it... now come on whoever you are let us know!

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by stotty View Post
    That was weird. Whose post was it then?

    I did however agree the two-handed return trumps the one-handed return. The very best returners have all been two-handers. The one hander gets it for variety but in modern tennis that doesn't buy you much it seems. Murray is perhaps the only player who enjoys the best of both worlds in that he has a very good slice backhand, but he seldom uses it when returning, which tells us something. He opts for the two-handed return above a chip virtually every time.
    It was an interesting post. It's strange someone has access to Yandell's account. Could it be the Ruskies? Sneaky devils. The post didn't seem to be keeping with Yandellian tennis philosophy. I picked up on that immediately and I was mentally kicking around a response when I left to go to the golf practice for four hours of continuous practice. The comeback is in process. It went really well...by the way. As if anyone cares. I care...that is what counts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85GDRA4UHZA

    Watch the "New Kid on the Block" dismantle the most boring world's number one player ever. The two handed return trumping the one hander? How is that? Not that big of a deal. Perhaps in some situations...but the one handed return has strengths of it's own. The thing about two handed players serves...they are rather one dimensional in their own right. Murray isn't doing much with his serve and Dominic Thiem's return of serve is perfectly adequate.

    Even if the two handed return was clearly superior that alone would not be reason enough to play the two handed game. It is the transition game and the net game that disappear at this supposed advantage in the return of serve. That post was clearly not Yandellian...it had holes in it.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    Not sure who made that last post--but it wasn't me! Don't agree on the two-handed return either.
    That was weird. Whose post was it then?

    I did however agree the two-handed return trumps the one-handed return. The very best returners have all been two-handers. The one hander gets it for variety but in modern tennis that doesn't buy you much it seems. Murray is perhaps the only player who enjoys the best of both worlds in that he has a very good slice backhand, but he seldom uses it when returning, which tells us something. He opts for the two-handed return above a chip virtually every time.
    Last edited by stotty; 04-29-2017, 01:56 PM.

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    Not sure who made that last post--but it wasn't me! Don't agree on the two-handed return either.
    Last edited by johnyandell; 04-29-2017, 10:46 AM.

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  • privas
    replied
    Personally, I lost several decades on the 1/1 grip. My shots kept going into the net. This is quite frustrating. But every coach insisted on this. I therefore switched to the two-handed backhand for 10 years. I then re-examined the one-hander, starting with the 1.5/1 grip, taught to me by my friend Barry Mills, and this changed everything! Now I use the 1/8, 1/1, 1.5/1 for the drives and of course the 2/1 for the slice. I'm not sure a kid would be willing to learn multiple grips but as John noted above, a less extreme grip like the 1.5/1 in my case, would be a reasonable start.

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  • curiosity
    replied
    This is just the sort of careful thorough exposition players need. I'm going to have to spring for a month's worth of TPdotnet for a few juniors.

    I have noticed that failure to succeed with a one-hander, frustration, seems often to flow from inability to avoid deceleration, hitches, in the player's swing. They just know they should be getting more power and spin. I suppose grip, forearm-to-racquet angle, good top-of-the-backswing form, and full rotation back... really have to be emphasized from the start, to enable a full energetic rotation to contact? Perhaps then the finish will take care of itself? Again, great post.

    Incidentally, did you get a new mic or a better pre-amp? The recording sounds best yet. The pace, too, seemed more relaxed. "Well, thanks for sharing, curiosity." laugh.
    Last edited by curiosity; 04-19-2017, 06:24 PM.

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    Thank you sir. I believe it should be kicking a lot more than it is in junior tennis here...

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    Would love to hear your thoughts on "Ultimate Fundamentals: The One Handed Backhand"!
    GREAT video on the fundamentals of the one handed backhand. It's alive and kicking afterall.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by privas View Post
    3. Finally, Fed's recent dominance by taking it on the rise...is there a change of grip needed for this half-volley from the service line, or is it just a matter of timing and bending the knees?
    One thing if for certain. He changed racquets. The equipment change with roughly 9% more hitting surface fundamentally changes things. It allows Federer...just like everyone else that changes to bigger racquets...to take "liberties" with his strokes.

    I have been speculating that as a result of more hitting surface that Roger has further bolstered his backhand with a grip change and it may be only incremental. Say, in the neighborhood of 9% stronger. Just an incremental turning in the hand makes a world of difference. Try it for yourself.

    It's pure speculation. I haven't heard boo from the horses mouth regarding this question but it is an interesting question and you would think that one of the interviewers might just think about asking it since all of the hullabaloo regarding his stronger backhand and the tactical changes he has been able to implement with it. Maybe most tennis journalists don't have much actual knowledge about some of the more intricate aspects about the actual game.

    Federer is taking the ball earlier. He is more aggressive off of high balls. These are clues that there has been a fundamental change beyond the equipment. HIs backhand was never that bad...only compared to his forehand would anyone think of it as a weakness. Every aspect of Federer's game has improved...particularly his service game. Maybe about 9% improvement in every department. 9% in the hands of an assassin such as Roger Federer is a world of difference.

    Here's an article about the "Death of the One Hand Backhand". Read it...there is a little surprise in it for tennisplayer.net subscribers.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/m...hand.html?_r=0

    I am pretty certain that Federer has changed his grip to better drive the backhand...perhaps only incrementally but Roger would certainly know how to capitalize on incremental changes. Plus all he has to do is look at his comrade...Stan Wawrinka to see what a stronger grip accomplishes.
    Last edited by don_budge; 04-10-2017, 09:47 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    It's the racket and the confidence not the stroke.

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