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The Myth of Lag and Snap

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  • johnyandell
    started a topic The Myth of Lag and Snap

    The Myth of Lag and Snap

    Would love to discuss my latest article, "The Myth of Lag and Snap"

  • johnyandell
    replied
    Correct and he has added that conscious inhibition of that motion to his thinking per the article.

    Leave a comment:


  • seano
    replied
    Centripetal force from a passive wrist joint, similar to a boat turning and pulling a skier and wiping them around. After the "flip", the arm and racquet will move forward 2 ways. First, they move in a linear path to the ball. Secondly, the racquet moves in a rotational manner due to the hand pulling in closer to the body (because it's attached to the shoulder), causing centripetal force so the racquet face will square up to the ball. The force starts at the butt end of the racquet and pulls the top end around.

    Vertical racquet speed, caused by internal rotation of the shoulder (along with forward racquet speed) is what produces the true heavy ball (speed and spin). The snap or slap at the ball occurs when there's an absence of vertical racquet speed, the wrist can move from extension to flexion, causing the snap/slap. One of the main purposes of the "flip" is to use shoulder internal rotation to produce vertical racquet speed, not wrist extension and flexion.

    Just quoting Brian Gordon
    Last edited by seano; 08-18-2017, 06:21 AM.

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  • 10splayer
    replied
    "Players are restraining the racquet head from coming around". Are we implying that momentum via external shoulder is the sole producer of RHS?

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  • johncraig
    replied
    I personally have spent many hours evaluating the concept of "lag and snap" and have posted several videos on YouTube opposing the theory presented by coaches with little experience or credentials. This article clarifies the concept once and for all, supported by the excellent videos of top professionals. The old saying, "The camera never lies" has never been more true. Thanks for a great article!

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    Howjo,
    Thanks for the great words!! Just curious who is trying to "sell" lag and snap??

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  • howjo100
    replied
    Great article John, as always spot on in demonstrating what really happens as opposed to the seemingly glamorous "lag and snap, prevalent on subscription based online programs not just available free on YouTube.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    Curiosity,
    Yeah I am think of posting the article in TW--that should stir some people up.

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  • curiosity
    replied
    Ah, the mere mention of roll back of the hitting arm, external shoulder rotation, brought joy to my heart. Lag and snap, indeed.....
    Thanks for a solid article.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    You are welcome.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    Lag may or may not happen in golf...if it does it has no relevance to tennis. Completely different implements, motions, stances, contact points--not to mention stationary versus moving balls... it's hard enough to understand tennis on it's own terms.
    I have learned more about tennis from playing and teaching golf than I have from playing tennis. Tennis...is golf on the run. Of course you are right about the differences...but there are some underlying fundamentals that are shockingly similar. This aspect of lag in particular is rather a fascinating aspect of the golf swing.

    Your article is very, very interesting. Lagging the racquet via the wrist is the difference between swinging the racquet as opposed to hitting at the ball. Lagging the club in golf is what accounts for the very same transfer of energy of all of the various conduits of the swing. As you say...the wrist is a hinge...as I have said in the past. The wrist is the conduit through which all of the energy is transferred into the tennis swing as well.

    Ironically the mystery of this energy transfer is virtually the same for golfers as it is for tennis players. Tennis is only now coming into it's own technique wise and analysis wise where golf has been for years. It helps to understand the golf swing when trying to understand what is happening in tennis. The fact that the action is taking place while the ball is stationary helps and facilitates understanding. It helps to isolate the kinetic chain. Golfers actually make very good tennis students. Jack Nicklaus was an avid golfer...I mean tennis player.

    But this is besides the point in view of your article which as usual is at a very high standard in explaining fundamentally what is happening in a tennis forehand. Bobby Jones was illustrating as much back in the 1920's in his black and white video...or rather movie. They didn't have video in those days.

    At any rate...I will read your article over again. Just in case I missed anything the first or second time around. Thanks for your comment...and the article.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    I think it's easy to see how people can get confused between lag and snap and the ATP forehand. Invasively, what you have at the critical juncture of an ATP forehand is bones going one way and muscles and tendons momentarily resisting, resulting in an explosion of power...but it is the consequence of a series of events. The idea that a player can 'delay' and store up energy may actually have a tiny bit of merit but is hopeless in terms of producing a consistent forehand.

    The idea of 'snapping' got dispelled by me a long time ago, and I can use myself as a great example why. I am a wristy player and grew up thinking that snapping the wrist led to power; many of us did back then. The result? A short follow through and poor extension...a break in the kinetic chain, and a relatively poor forehand. You can no longer believe in snap once you've bought into the idea of extension.

    I think this Tennisplayer article is one of the best there has been for a while. I like the inside-in and the inside-out caparison. I think also the body alignment and contact point positions in the clips are also revealing.
    Last edited by stotty; 08-07-2017, 01:17 PM.

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  • johnyandell
    replied
    Lag may or may not happen in golf...if it does it has no relevance to tennis. Completely different implements, motions, stances, contact points--not to mention stationary versus moving balls... it's hard enough to understand tennis on it's own terms.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Great article. I love the real written ones where I can read and reread. Much better than the videos!

    As an outsider, non pro, I see the extreme stiffness in juniors at almost all levels. Even Murray seems too stiff to me and loses some of the snap that would result if he was looser. Fundamentals are tough but crucial. Just ask Phil Jackson about NBA players...

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Creating Lag...in Golf (1920's)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7KKYw4AjiU

    Leave a comment:

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