2017 U. S. Open Championships...ATP 2000...New York, New York, U. S. A.

[stotty]

My sense is that Murray was tight when he played. This shows in his forehand and serve that use more muscle than they use the loose acceleration seen in Federer and Nadal. That is why he is having problems. He spent too much energy and was too tight. I think he is done. He will just limp along losing, eventually opt for surgery and then never get back to the top.

Have you heard anything about Fed's back. I suspect that he was not 100% at the US open. Not that he was hurt but just that he could not hit certain balls very well.

That is why he was missing so many of the shots he normally makes against Delpo.

No I haven't had any news about Roger's back other than he's had problems for a few months and the situation was being managed. He seemed absolutely fine in some matches but not in others. His back problems goes back a few years now. I thought it had been resolved, but either it has reoccured or it's different kind of back problem. Roger keeps pretty quite about these things so it's hard to tell. Most players suffer physically at some point or other but choose to soldier on.

Murray is making a big mistake. Having a hip replacement aged 40 would be a disaster for anyone. It's not worth it for a trophy, not really.

[arturohernandez]

I heard yesterday through a physio closely associated with someone from the Murray camp that Murray has a latral hip tear which won't heal without surgery. Having surgery would mean 9 months out of the game. Apparently Murray, being at the twilight of his career, has opted not to have surgery but to manage the injury instead. The physio said this will damage the hip as it will result in bone rubbing against bone. He said Murray will pay for this decision physically later down the line.

My sense is that Murray was tight when he played. This shows in his forehand and serve that use more muscle than they use the loose acceleration seen in Federer and Nadal. That is why he is having problems. He spent too much energy and was too tight. I think he is done. He will just limp along losing, eventually opt for surgery and then never get back to the top.

Have you heard anything about Fed's back. I suspect that he was not 100% at the US open. Not that he was hurt but just that he could not hit certain balls very well.

That is why he was missing so many of the shots he normally makes against Delpo.

[stotty]

Yes that was my point. The young guns aren't quite there yet. Roger and Rafa are still the best of the lot right now. Pat Cash came out today and claimed Roger is still the man to beat, the best player in the world. He could well be right but I am not sure Rafa is too far behind if he is behind at all.

I personally think Rafa would have won the US whether the draw had panned out or not. He tends only to play as well as he needs to. He won't be all that aggressive if he can win by popping balls in play.

I heard yesterday through a physio closely associated with someone from the Murray camp that Murray has a latral hip tear which won't heal without surgery. Having surgery would mean 9 months out of the game. Apparently Murray, being at the twilight of his career, has opted not to have surgery but to manage the injury instead. The physio said this will damage the hip as it will result in bone rubbing against bone. He said Murray will pay for this decision physically later down the line.

[arturohernandez]

Thiem? Shapolav? Zerev?

Good question. We seem to have a gap with no real contenders in the next generation.

I don't think Them will do well outside of clay. His game is predicated on big shots from way too deep in the court.

I think Zvererv will do better but he is like DelPotro just a little too tall.

My bet is on Shapovalov if he stays healthy and continues to improve. He is the right height and has the right game.

Dimitrov might look like Fed but he defends too much.

Even Nadal attacks at any chance he gets.

Shapovalov is the only one who has that kind of attitude.

But he is really young so it could take a few more years.

Until then you are right, there is really no one that can threaten the big four when they are healthy.

But they have to be healthy and that is where I think age will take its toll.

Should be a really interesting 2018...

[gzhpcu]

Thiem? Shapolav? Zerev?

[stotty]

I have two thoughts:

1) Everyone keeps thinking Rafa will breakdown and disappear and he keeps proving everyone wrong; He won two slams this year.

2) Rafa is not immune to the drop in play at age 30. His best performance was by far on clay. He cannot win on grass anymore and hardcourt tennis will get even worse. This is his best year and he was losing to people that would not touch him on clay.

I don't think he can win two more slams again. The US open was an anomaly. A gift from the heavens. He might be able to win one more French but I really think his style will not lend itself to winning any more slams outside of clay.

But he could prove me wrong. Agassi said Nadal was writing checks but his body keeps on cashing them in.

I don't anyone expected him to be this successful.

It will be many years before we see someone with this kind of motivation.

Fed is the only one who can match him now and he is getting to the point where I think his only chance will be wimbledon.

If I were him, I would take as much time off until the hunger and motivation came back.

All good points...very valid.

But who else? Who is going to win these slams instead?

[arturohernandez]

Rafa is a great fighter. He has 16 Slam titles versus Roger's 19. He will probably end up with more than Roger.

I have two thoughts:

1) Everyone keeps thinking Rafa will breakdown and disappear and he keeps proving everyone wrong; He won two slams this year.

2) Rafa is not immune to the drop in play at age 30. His best performance was by far on clay. He cannot win on grass anymore and hardcourt tennis will get even worse. This is his best year and he was losing to people that would not touch him on clay.

I don't think he can win two more slams again. The US open was an anomaly. A gift from the heavens. He might be able to win one more French but I really think his style will not lend itself to winning any more slams outside of clay.

But he could prove me wrong. Agassi said Nadal was writing checks but his body keeps on cashing them in.

I don't anyone expected him to be this successful.

It will be many years before we see someone with this kind of motivation.

Fed is the only one who can match him now and he is getting to the point where I think his only chance will be wimbledon.

If I were him, I would take as much time off until the hunger and motivation came back.

[gzhpcu]

Rafa is a great fighter. He has 16 Slam titles versus Roger's 19. He will probably end up with more than Roger.

[stotty]

Twice in the tournament Rafa asked the linesman if he could move out of the way so he could stand further back still.

[gzhpcu]

Anderson's serve was shown not to be so great: just mindless bashing as hard as possible. No variation, no deception... having gotten to the final is no great compliment for the state of today's tennis...

[don_budge]

Couldn't Anderson hit a slow, short sidespin serve? To keeo Rafa guessing...

This is the beginning of a very long discussion. But for the record I didn't watch a single point of this bullshit. Rafael Nadal and Kevin Anderson. What nonsense.

Kevin Anderson is another ATP player playing the junior game. Here's a guy who is what...7 feet tall? He is standard fare with a two hand backhand, strong gripped forehand and what about his serve?

Doesn't have the tactical acumen to pull Nadal off of the court with deadly slice serves up the line...followed by hammering balls up the tee? It's moronic. But that is modern tennis. In a nut shell.

Only Roger Federer has the technique and the tactical acumen to pull off the serve and volley play with any effectiveness. Even he has lost his edge on this part of the game and has only been able to partially resurrect this tactic. The madness has come to full light and this was a spectacle beyond the wildest imagination of the game only seventeen years ago.

Complete and utter nonsense. I couldn't wait to say it and I didn't have to see the match to know it.

[stotty]

I was thinking the same thing. Sampras would have feasted on that all day. Not just Sampras. Any winner of Wimbledon in the 90's (besides Agassi) would have just attacked the net all the time. Nadal should savor this victory. I just don't see it happening again.

In fact, I feel it is an end of an era. I think both Nadal and Federer will start to fade slowly again. Djokovic won't regain the fire. He will be like DelPotro, a shadow of his former self. Murray won't be able to get back either.

And then Zverev and Shapalov will be waiting in the wings. Shapalov has the all court game to beat anyone.

It is all very circular. Both Fed and Nadal win two slams each. Each is given a relatively easy draw in one of their slams.

It's all too perfect as if it was somehow orchestrated this way.

Given where we were a year ago, I am really wondering where we will be a year from now.

Thanks for your comments.

McEnroe said Rafa stands so back far because it's his chosen style of play and he can. He can, says McEnroe, because there is no one around who can do anything about it, and if anyone did come along, Rafa would just shift position, because he can shift position if he wants to....if he has to. Basically Rafa is playing on his own terms.

Borg would have loved to have stood that far back against McEnroe but never did because he knew he couldn't. Watch any of their matches and Borg will be contacting his returns around the baseline or just outside it. Had Borg stood were Rafa does he would have been slitting his own throat. I know, I know, I know tennis was different back then...but not so different that Rafa's bizarre position couldn't be exploited.

No one on the forum could convince me that Rafa could continue to stand so far back against a good serve volleyer who could angle his serves. I have spoken to no one yet who doesn't think Rafa's strategy for returning on a hardcourt isn't odd. "It just looks all wrong" is what most people say.

[arturohernandez]

Rafa stood that far back to return in all seven rounds. I said to my son, Sampras would have a field day with Rafa standing so far back. The options for winning points would be huge.

I don't know how Rafa gets away with that. I feel I could ace him myself from the deuce side. He is, however, very quick to assume a more normal position after the return, but even so, and good server or serve and volleyer would be able to exploit the situation you would think.

I went to bed after the second set...the writing being on the wall.

I was thinking the same thing. Sampras would have feasted on that all day. Not just Sampras. Any winner of Wimbledon in the 90's (besides Agassi) would have just attacked the net all the time. Nadal should savor this victory. I just don't see it happening again.

In fact, I feel it is an end of an era. I think both Nadal and Federer will start to fade slowly again. Djokovic won't regain the fire. He will be like DelPotro, a shadow of his former self. Murray won't be able to get back either.

And then Zverev and Shapalov will be waiting in the wings. Shapalov has the all court game to beat anyone.

It is all very circular. Both Fed and Nadal win two slams each. Each is given a relatively easy draw in one of their slams.

It's all too perfect as if it was somehow orchestrated this way.

Given where we were a year ago, I am really wondering where we will be a year from now.

[gzhpcu]

Couldn't Anderson hit a slow, short sidespin serve? To keeo Rafa guessing...

[stotty]

Rafa won easily, as expected. Kevin's game is too limited. His serve is fast, but no variation. Rafa was receiving serve from practically the linesman's lap. Why didn't Anderson take advantage of it and hit, slow short angled slice serves. Wait - don't tell me: he can't....

Rafa stood that far back to return in all seven rounds. I said to my son, Sampras would have a field day with Rafa standing so far back. The options for winning points would be huge.

I don't know how Rafa gets away with that. I feel I could ace him myself from the deuce side. He is, however, very quick to assume a more normal position after the return, but even so, and good server or serve and volleyer would be able to exploit the situation you would think.

I went to bed after the second set...the writing being on the wall.