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The Myth of the Dog

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  • johnyandell
    started a topic The Myth of the Dog

    The Myth of the Dog

    Would love to discuss my latest article, "The Myth of the Dog!"

  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Oh, so you mean U when looking at the player from the side. As in going down moving a bit forward and then up again.

    Is that what you mean?

    Leave a comment:


  • jdcremin
    replied
    Yeah - do it on all forehands where you have time. Just go out there and exaggerate the step - do a really wide step to the ball, get down really low, raise up as you're coming into contact. You'll see the benefits rather quickly.


    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Originally posted by jdcremin View Post
    Most technique is a waste of time - I've found that the most important thing to learn is the movement of the hips; and it's not "rotation". Learn to hit off a wide stance and transfer the hips from back to front in a U motion, amazing things will happen. Just like Dimitrov is doing in the video above.
    I like the idea of a U motion. Can you clarify this for a closed stance forehand? I realize that the stance depends on the heigh of the ball. But I find that hitting a forehand with a closed stance tends to not let me open the hips as much.

    Some pros simply are rigid about closed stance forehands to get the proper weight transfer.

    The U motion idea seems to emphasize a more 3 dimensional motion and not just a 2 dimensional one.

    So can U happen with a closed stance forehand and if so, how?

    Any thoughts?

    Leave a comment:


  • jdcremin
    replied
    Most technique is a waste of time - I've found that the most important thing to learn is the movement of the hips; and it's not "rotation". Learn to hit off a wide stance and transfer the hips from back to front in a U motion, amazing things will happen. Just like Dimitrov is doing in the video above.
    Last edited by jdcremin; 09-12-2017, 01:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    F and A, Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • faultsnaces
    replied
    JY - FYI -- the link to the Rick Macci article / video under "Automatic Pat" is broken; I suspect the correct link should be Developing an ATP Style Forehand: Part 1

    Leave a comment:


  • cms56
    replied
    Within an acceptable range, there are a number of arm configurations that may be used in the preparatory phase of the backswing. Many contemporary players, intelligently moving to swings that more efficiently utilize the stretch shortening cycle of the kinetic chain, carry the racquet during the unit turn with the right elbow high and the racquet head tipped forward (nearly or even actually pointing toward the opponent). In such a configuration, the racquet face is already in a "face down" orientation (patting a very tall dog, indeed). If that configuration is maintained well into the backswing (the windup phase), it will almost invariably result in a good degree of a "pat the dog" look. But such a configuration is incidental (or, better, consequential), and really has little to no bearing on the important mechanical and biomechanical features of a sound forward swing and contact. In short, it doesn't matter, whatever the height of the ball may be, or even any other aspect of the swing or circumstance of the shot.

    Try two swings: (1) configure the right arm going into the unit turn with the elbow at the height of the hand, the arm internally rotated, and the racquet laid flat (in the plane of the arm), and keep it that way (even after hand separation) until the forward rotation begins -- the likely result, lot's of pat the dog. (2) configure the right arm going into the unit turn with the right elbow down and well below the level of the right hand, and keep it that way, even after separation until racquet head drop, and you'll likely see very little pat the dog. But even with this second approach and second arm configuration, there will still be available all the important muscular (and biomechanical) consequences of the SSC. That's why (IMNSHO) pat the dog does not matter.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Great read! I watched a junior match the other day in which one of the players was seeing what the pros did and then was trying to do it consciously. He kept trying to whip the ball and would put his racket facing down before he hit the ball. This worked great on some balls. He would hit big forehands.

    On other balls, they would go too low or he would miss. As the match progressed he started getting tighter and tighter and was trying to whip his racket consciously.

    He lost in a third set tiebreak. His opponent was a lanky loose player that has some serious whip and consistency on all his strokes.

    If only the one who lost could have learned to hit a basic shot.

    It never occurred to him that he could simply loosen his grip and it might happen on its own.

    I have literally experimented with such a loose grip that the edge of the palm of my hand is the only thing that I feel is pushing the ball forward.

    On these shots there appears to be no effort and yet my son has told me that they had extra topspin and I can see them spinning all the way to the back fence.

    I have John's old visual tennis book that I bought on Amazon very cheap a couple of years ago.

    This article is more modern but just as effective.

    But not too modern.

    I hate video "articles" because I can't skim to the parts I want.

    The embedded clips are more than enough in this written version.

    Thank you John!

    Leave a comment:


  • bman
    replied
    It's the grip.

    Leave a comment:


  • nemo1965
    replied
    Good read. What amazes me also about all the tennis-instruction and all new Holy Grail of the Stroke is the total negligence of the bounce of the ball.

    Yeah. Indeed. Remember the ball? That it bounces? And not the same time all time? If the ball bounces low, you going have a totally different form of your stroke (and other grip, and other foot-position, and other hip rotation etc etc). If the ball bounces hip-level you have another stroke. And if it bounces above your shoulders... etc etc etc.

    Take Del Potro. Why is he able to hit so flat? Because most players hit with tremendous topspin, which bounces head high for most players. But for Del Potro is 6 foot 4. Most of those balls bounce up - for him - at shoulder level. Which means?

    Exactly.

    I think a lot of instruction would improve tremendously if the pupils consciously train at: where is the ball going to bounce on my side of the court? Where am I and where am I going to be? How high is the ball going to bounce? What does that mean for my preparation, my position and my choice of stroke?

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    Maybe some day DB! Thanks for the good words.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    STEPARATE...Step and Separate the Hands on the Racquet

    Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    Would love to discuss my latest article, "The Myth of the Dog!"
    Originally posted by klacr View Post
    Dog pat, pat the dog, dribble the basketball.
    As someone who certifies tennis teaching professionals for the USPTA, which means observing lots of lessons, I've seen and heard it all. This is one of the most common phrases I hear, sadly.

    Students will often times understand the concept but they still cannot achieve it our do it under duress. Which speaks volumes about its true effectiveness as a tool. Guess John got tired of hearing it just like I did. Thanks for setting us straight.

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton
    Dog pat? Let's focus on "STEPARATE" instead...and finish your swing!

    https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...tanceFront.mov

    I for one am all for boiling things down to its simplest terms when it comes to teaching tennis and this to me spells fundamentals. Here is half of it.

    "Swing to the image of that position. You won't even know if you pat the dog, or how much. And it won't matter. But you will if you need to."

    It doesn't get any simpler than this. Why muck it up? You can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.

    The article itself is exactly what a good tennis article should be...food for thought. This one is a feast...there is a lot to be gleaned from it for any tennis teacher. No matter how experienced or inexperienced you are.

    From Tilden to Federer you connect the dots and somewhere in between these two you will find tennisplayer.net and John Yandell who time and again correctly and efficiently guides the teacher in the process. Always fundamentally correct (FC)...well except perhaps in the case of the "swinging volley" (a little don_budge irony tossed in).

    As for Roger...he is "The Living Proof" you know. It isn't that he is a great player...which is of course true. But more importantly is the technique and the seamless manner in which he plays the game. Does he "pat the dog"? Who cares says John Yandell...and of course he is right. But take a look at the video and consider this aspect of the swing.

    When John posted the forehand of Alexander Zverev for a directly to the side view, I was struck by one singular aspect of his swing. This is where the tip of the racquet is tilted slightly forwards towards the opponents side of the net. If you can get the student to have a light hold of the racquet neck with the left hand and get them to number one tilt the racquet head slightly forwards while at the same time number two get them to set their "strings to the wall" with the right elbow slightly away from the body you will find that if you take John's simple statement there will be a dog pat or whatever you wish to call it.

    In the video with 37 clicks of the right arrow key we get to a point where Roger's hand leaves the throat of his racket and it is no coincidence that his left foot is off of the ground and poised to step to the ball. I have invented another word here that cracks my Swedish speaking students up...STEPARATE.

    It's two words actually. Step...while separating the hands. This occurs sometime around the time the ball is bouncing...as evidenced by the video. More living proof. Click four more times (41 clicks from the beginning) and you will see what I mean about the strings to the wall. Look at The Maestro's strings...they are directly on the wall. I actually have my students left hand on the racquet at this point to train them to keep the left side of the body engaged in the swing. Now I merely say to them..."strings to the wall" and they all jump into position perpendicular to the net with their left hands controlling the racquet head and their strings directly on the wall, right elbow slightly away from the body. They are standing on the baseline and now I have them move back to the fence without crossing their feet. Now they are moving forwards to the service line...now back again. I do it with them...I get winded and have to catch my breath.

    I almost forgot...10 more clicks and voila. He's patting Puntzie. Pat the dog. I love that little guy. Good Puntzie! He adores me too!

    Next I line them all on the center service line and in a line back to the baseline. Now they are shuffling or skipping backwards with their strings "to the wall" as if to run around their backhand on their backhand sideline and they take a swing. Then they are running forwards to the other sideline on the other side of the court and take a swing. You can very effectively run in this position so that once you arrive at the ball...you are in position to STEPARATE...and swing. When releasing the racquet with the left hand...the left hand goes directly to the wall...and step to the ball.

    The funny thing is that I don't say a word about patting the dog and oddly enough I don't have too. Somehow they all manage something of the sort and the thing seems to sort itself out quite naturally. This is the natural motion that the body will dictate the thing to happen as Norman suggests. The kinetic chain. The comment of Yandell's seals the deal...if they begin in the position of "strings to the wall" and finish the thing...what have you got? I am amazed at the forehands this is producing.

    I am only a student of the game...but I just so happen to be a teacher. From Zverev to Federer...courtesy of tennisplayer.net.

    Awesome piece of work...particularly taken in it's totality. Thanks John...I wish that I could just shake your hand.

    Leave a comment:


  • klacr
    replied
    Dog pat, pat the dog, dribble the basketball.
    As someone who certifies tennis teaching professionals for the USPTA, which means observing lots of lessons, I've seen and heard it all. This is one of the most common phrases I hear, sadly.

    Students will often times understand the concept but they still cannot achieve it our do it under duress. Which speaks volumes about its true effectiveness as a tool. Guess John got tired of hearing it just like I did. Thanks for setting us straight.

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton

    Leave a comment:


  • johnyandell
    replied
    Sean,
    Not sure--outside my range of expertise.
    Norman,
    Big believer in the body. Huge component in preparation--coiling outside leg and torso.

    Leave a comment:

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