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2018 Roland Garros. The French Open

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  • don_budge
    replied
    In Two Words...Boring and Disappointing

    Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
    Rafa has added stop balls and closing volley attacks to shorten exchanges. His game has become more varied.
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    the volley was big, but more importantly to me, after missing it, he got frustrated and got away from the Nadal way of thinking, which is "all I'm thinking about is winning the next point", and "by the way, I want to win all the points".
    So it goes. Dominic Thiem delivered a major dud. He showed nothing that made him appear that he deserved to be a French Open Champion. Rafael Nadal once again demonstrated through the entire tournament that there was nobody willing to rise to the occasion and challenge him. The semifinal with Juan Martin Del Potro was more of the same. A match utterly devoid of tactics. Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer have both demonstrated that there is a way to tactically play "The King of Clay" yet neither showed the slightest inclination to come up with a game plan let alone stick with one. There was zero evidence of a tactical plan. What are they paying these coaches and the rest of the team for?

    This is the future of tennis. While sportsmanship may be up in some respects...lack of confrontation...the rest of the game is down. Way, way down. This was not a compelling match. Nothing could have kept me glued to it to save the world. It was boring from the very beginning as it became very obvious, very quickly that Thiem had not given sufficient thought as to how he was going to solve this epic riddle. How to play Rafael Nadal on clay.

    Thiem is quoted on the ATP website in the headline of an article that I won't bother to read..."I gave it everything I had". Well if that is true he doesn't haven't a whole lot to offer in terms of big match play. The occasion calls for inspiration. To rise to a height that the player has not previously attained. Instead what he delivered what he has delivered on a continuous basis in the past. It was a performance that was anything but inspiring. He struggled with nerves. He struggled with confidence. He didn't even come close to what I alluded to in an earlier post...belief in himself. The belief that he was destined to win. This is what separates the champion from the also ran. This is what separates Rafael Nadal on a clay court in Paris in the month of June.

    Dominic Thiem woke up today with a hangover. It is well deserved too. He may not have consumed a drop of alcohol but he was drunk last night on thoughts of what could have been. Instead he came out of it complaining in full view of the public eye at his support crew...whining and bitching that he wasn't playing well. I was sort of surprised at his behaviour. I really wonder why Thiem after missing a first serve does not have the second ball in his left hand ready to go immediately. Instead he receives it on the bounce from a ball boy. Where is the repetition in that? Each and every ball boy is going to deliver that ball in a different way every single time. A minor point? It all adds up...trust me. He showed me nothing in terms of what the book says about "Match Play". Nothing.

    The volleys? Pathetic. He missed a forehand volley his first service game that greatly contributed to his losing that game. These are not points to gift to your opponent. Thiem was gifting all day. He made a day of it. Giving it all away. He handed that match to Rafael Nadal. There was no dog fight in the match. Just surrender. Sweet surrender. Probably a sweet little hug at the end. Nice boy. The backhand volley missed and dumped in the net. Remember this guy is a poster boy for volleying on this website too. I think I remember mentioning he wasn't the greatest example.

    I watched the clay court season in detail. Didn't write a word on the forum about it. There is nothing really to say. The only match worth watching is Roger Federer versus Anybody*.

    *I have changed my mind about this don_budgeism a bit. There is a rather intriguing player out there and Dominic Thiem played him in the second round. This kid has caught my eye. I watched him the whole clay court season. Just as I would watch Federer. He was the only match to watch...Stefano Tsitsipas versus Anybody. Interesting kid. There was something about him that gave me a feeling of Borg and even Federer.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    I am more convinced than ever that we will never see anyone really best Nadal's level on clay. His level will just drop off with age unitl it gets to the point that he begins to lose some matches on clay.
    Staggering sporting achievement and one that could go unmatched for a hundred years, assuming scientists don't come up with a 'get younger' tablet. Even more staggering is that it might have been 12 had he not pulled out in 2016 due to injury. He has a close to perfect game for clay...and absolutely perfect for five sets on clay. Beatable occasionally over 3 sets yet virtually unbeatable over 5 sets.

    Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
    Rafa has added stop balls and closing volley attacks to shorten exchanges. His game has become more varied.
    Phil, Nadal has always been a good volleyer but, yes, he has got a little better still, especially on his forehand volley. He is probably as good as Roger at knocking off bread and butter volleys, and his low backhand volley is pretty good too. I love the way he closes down the net so quickly...similar to how Borg did. As for his overhead, well, that is an outstanding shot and every bit as good as his forehand in my view.

    He has lost that incredibly footwork speed he had when he was in his early twenties, but he is still bloody quick.

    Wimbledon could be interesting if he steps up closer to the baseline like he did when he won Wimbledon in the early years. Last year his court positioning in some of his matches was a joke.

    Leave a comment:


  • gzhpcu
    replied
    Rafa has added stop balls and closing volley attacks to shorten exchanges. His game has become more varied.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    I am more convinced than ever that we will never see anyone really best Nadal's level on clay. His level will just drop off with age unitl it gets to the point that he begins to lose some matches on clay.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    Okay I am off to work now...coaching a man of 83 would you believe. Hopefully Thiem can come up with something for when I get back.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    Yep, same old, same old.

    Novak doesn't serve as well as Thiem but uses it so much better, especially when serving to the deuce court, which is tactically and mentally important. It means Novak often wins the first point on his serve, which is psychologically uplifting.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    agree on the serve. This is a classic Nadal beatdown on clay. Same ol same ol.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    I'm not convinced on Thiem's serving tactics. His percentages are down. I would like to see him mix if far more and finesse things here and there with his first serve. The rallying tactics seem to be purely physical so far. It's not going to work. It won't be enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    the volley was big, but more importantly to me, after missing it, he got frustrated and got away from the Nadal way of thinking, which is "all I'm thinking about is winning the next point", and "by the way, I want to win all the points".

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    Bummer...Thiem loses the first set. It's going to be all uphill from now on.

    If only...if only...if only...these top players could learn to volley. Thiem missed an absolutely sitter in that service game at 4-5...and he's being doing it over the fortnight.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    I hope he wins the 1st, but it has been physical, his play has been physical, as I hoped. He certainly has decreased his odds significantly if he does not win the 1st.

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  • stotty
    replied
    3-3 first set...getting intriguing now. Thiem simply has to win the first set...has to.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    Nadal is rock solid so far while Thiem is as nervous as hell. Thiem has to settle...and quick.

    2-0 Rafa

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  • stotty
    replied
    Twice this tournament Nadal has been seriously tested only to be saved by the rain. Bolleli and Schwartzman both had him by the testicles with big hitting, route one tennis. Many of the players can do it these days as there many who can swing sledgehammer blows. The problems is having the concentration to keep it up non-stop until the end of the match...and, crucially, to hold one's nerve at the end.

    It can be done, it really can. Thiem has to serve well to set the rallies up in his favour. If he can do this he can then take big cuts at Nadal's second serve and anything that lands short.

    It's monumental challenge but it can be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post

    Absolutely spot on. He has to show Nadal he can go toe to toe with him. He has to be prepared to go the distance. To beat a player like Nadal on clay he will need to defeat him mentally as well as physically. He has shown it a number of times and now this is the logical progression of culmination points for Dominic Thiem. To do it in the finals of a Grand Slam event. If he wins he becomes the poster boy of "The Education and Evolution of a Champion 10splayer". It is total commitment at this point or it won't be worth the price of admission.
    toe to toe, defeat him mentally as well as physically as you say. That is what Nadal had done to everyone on clay for the 13 years or so, with a couple of blips, one to Soderling(in the match of his life, with his 61 winners) and of course Novak(who for that one year took it to Nadal). The 61 winner recipe is not really realistic, so that leaves the taking it to him option. Nadal may only seem to hit 30 plus winners or so but those shots of his, hooking to areas of the court like no other, are body blows. That is what Thiem needs to produce, clay court body blows, with an error count in the teens, just like Nadal. Listening to defeated players(Nadal's opponents) post match interviews(Del Potro a prime example) are like none I have ever heard. They pretty much just say it is virtually impossible to beat him on clay. Gasquet has pretty much said that exactly. Thiem obviously needs to get way past that sentiment from the warmups on.

    Leave a comment:

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