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Mischa Zverev fh - the ultimate rec forehand?

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  • Mischa Zverev fh - the ultimate rec forehand?

    was hitting yesterday with an ex-ivy guy... flat hitter, everything deep... i was even standing 6ft behind the baseline.

    eventually i tried an extreme shortening of my strokes... afterward was able to move back to 1ft behind the baseline, and stroke the ball back deep consistently (not a bunt or moonball)

    afterwards, realized that i was hitting a mischa-like fh. seems like mischa's fh, though it lacks attacking power, is perfect fh for anything 5.0 or lower... short, compact, less prone to error, excellent control, absorbs pace well, and lets you redirect well, versatile (especially for approach shots), etc... only con is losing ability to put away balls from the baseline (but at the rec level, no one puts in enough time to be able to do that consistently anyway).

    anyone else do this? or experiement with varying backswing lengths?

  • #2
    I have experimented with that also and it works. It is just hard to maintain as it is so tempting to go back to old habits of swinging big. You really need to relax your wrist into contact too with the Mischa type. Tomic does this type of fh too.

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    • #3
      thx for the response. i was really amazed at how well i was picking up hard hit at the baseline balls. it felt like i was just stepping in with my body weight and pushing through contact (with relax wrist, brush through contact, and full finish - as you mentioned). as long as i adjusted my height, the neutralizing depth i was able to generate is probably good enough for me to compete with at the 4.5-5.0 level. (as most folks don't have enough practice time to blast winners from behind the baseline).

      i really like this abbreviated approach for approach shots... especially the pesky low/short balls i'll often earn from winning a neutral ball rally (but then i'll blow it taking too big a swing on an approach).

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      • #4
        Here it is. Would not recommend the timing of the backswing...

        https://tennisplayer.net/bulletin/fo...verev-forehand

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        • #5
          Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
          Here it is. Would not recommend the timing of the backswing...

          https://tennisplayer.net/bulletin/fo...verev-forehand
          thx!
          this post summarizes it for me: https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...5801#post65801
          i'd like to use that type of compact stroke when rushed (either because opponent just hit a big deep ball, or because i'm approaching and i'm taking time away from myself)...anywho, i found it was working for me yesterday, counteracting a player that hit much bigger/deeper than me.

          live everyone in the link you posted mentioned... not a world class fh "technique", but certainly good enough for me in the rec leagues... at least as a utility shot.

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          • #6
            One thing in particular strikes me as odd. Mischa dispenses with a final pull-back of the upper hitting arm to put it in tension with the shoulder. That's a very common element these days, and it takes almost no time. It also seems an important element in getting good spring when forward rotation/racquet motion begins. Am I over-rating that bit?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by curiosity View Post
              One thing in particular strikes me as odd. Mischa dispenses with a final pull-back of the upper hitting arm to put it in tension with the shoulder. That's a very common element these days, and it takes almost no time. It also seems an important element in getting good spring when forward rotation/racquet motion begins. Am I over-rating that bit?
              when i do that (ie. return of serve, half volley gs, swinging volley, etc...), it helps improve my timing handling difficult balls, by shortening the racquet path to contact... guessing that's why he does it that way?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nytennisaddict View Post

                when i do that (ie. return of serve, half volley gs, swinging volley, etc...), it helps improve my timing handling difficult balls, by shortening the racquet path to contact... guessing that's why he does it that way?
                Hmmm. I have had a very compact forehand and played at the 4.5 to 5.0 level. It is very effective but it seems that it should only be used in emergencies when the ball is truly coming fast. Fed also has a very compact swing and modifies it depending on circumstances. The difference is that Mischa only has one forehand that he uses no matter what. Wouldn't a better approach be to loosen the arm a bit and then naturally adjust the backswing depending on time.

                To me Mischa's seems a bit artificial. A little bit robotic. if the arm is looser and allowed to move back then it will naturally be shorter with less time and longer with more time.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                  Hmmm. I have had a very compact forehand and played at the 4.5 to 5.0 level. It is very effective but it seems that it should only be used in emergencies when the ball is truly coming fast. Fed also has a very compact swing and modifies it depending on circumstances. The difference is that Mischa only has one forehand that he uses no matter what. Wouldn't a better approach be to loosen the arm a bit and then naturally adjust the backswing depending on time.

                  To me Mischa's seems a bit artificial. A little bit robotic. if the arm is looser and allowed to move back then it will naturally be shorter with less time and longer with more time.
                  agreed, that's what i do... try to adjust the backswing based on the time i have... that said, many times i adjust incorrectly (eg. take too big a backswing for the time i have to prep). many times folks attribute this to "being late"... when it's probably as simple as "too big a swing for the shot".
                  on the flip side, "pushers" typically never have this issue, as they always take an abbreviated backswing, because they know it's easier to time a fast moving ball.
                  Last edited by nytennisaddict; 06-11-2019, 11:50 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nytennisaddict View Post

                    agreed, that's what i do... try to adjust the backswing based on the time i have... that said, many times i adjust incorrectly (eg. take too big a backswing for the time i have to prep). many times folks attribute this to "being late"... when it's probably as simple as "too big a swing for the shot".
                    on the flip side, "pushers" typically never have this issue, as they always take an abbreviated backswing, because they know it's easier to time a fast moving ball.
                    I am realizing that recognizing the ball is the key to good preparation. I played a lot of baseball as a kid so maybe that helped a bit. But some people just need more time to see the ball.

                    There must be something out there on recognizing the ball quickly.

                    I have the sense that it has to do with early recognition.

                    Is that your thinking or do you see it as backswing issue?
                    Last edited by arturohernandez; 06-23-2019, 05:51 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                      I am realizing that recognizing the ball is the key to good preparation. I played a lot of baseball as a kid so maybe that helped a bit. But some people just need more time to see the ball.

                      There must be something out there on recognizing the ball quickly.

                      I have the sense that it has to do with early recognition.

                      Is that your thinking or do you see it as backswing issue?
                      I think for a lot of rec players (myself included), it starts with timing the split step properly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sperlsco View Post

                        I think for a lot of rec players (myself included), it starts with timing the split step properly.
                        Agreed. 4.0 to 5.0 tend to slit step when opponent contacts the ball, rather than when the opponent starts the forward swing. Just a hair difference in time, but one will often be late otherwise, especially if you or your opponent play close to the baseline. Feet donít react as quick as we see( think).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                          I am realizing that recognizing the ball is the key to good preparation. I played a lot of baseball as a kid so maybe that helped a bit. But some people just need more time to see the ball.

                          There must be something out there on recognizing the ball quickly.

                          I have the sense that it has to do with early recognition.

                          Is that your thinking or do you see it as backswing issue?
                          A playerís feet need to be de-weighted slightly BEFORE YOU SEE THE BALL contacted. If you look at high speed video, pros rise on their
                          toes(de weight) at start of forward swing, not at ball contact. If your first step happens to be a little too quick, the timing of your steps will self adjust. You canít move the first step quickly if you donít de weight. Pros even de weight slightly when warming up. It really takes slo mo, however, to see this.

                          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfBguU0U6Jg.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                            I am realizing that recognizing the ball is the key to good preparation. I played a lot of baseball as a kid so maybe that helped a bit. But some people just need more time to see the ball.

                            There must be something out there on recognizing the ball quickly.

                            I have the sense that it has to do with early recognition.

                            Is that your thinking or do you see it as backswing issue?
                            just got from vac... for me, the keys to good timing...
                            * proper initial posiitioning (eg. bisecting angle of likely returns)
                            * read where a ball is going based on opponent's body prep
                            * split step
                            * reading the ball (hearing it come off the strings, reading trajectory, anticipating sping, anticipating bounce for the the surface, etc...)
                            * proper movement to ball (eg. in such a way that the body weight is moving forward through contact, leaving the arms to focus on getting the racquet to contact properly)
                            * shorter backswing helps give you time (shorter runway to contact), if all the of above wasn't enough to give you the time to take a full backswing

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just cross posted some ideas on the backswing in the Naomi Osaka discussion. Again, the tradeoff is between being able to bash from the baseline or being able to adjust and hit the ball on the rise and approach the net.

                              Mischa is an exaggeration but it definitely has its place in the game.

                              I feel like the tendency toward western grips and bashing from the baseline leaves players vulnerable.

                              It's a game of tradeoffs...

                              Comment

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