Rafael Nadal ҆s forehand is a better role model than Roger Federer ҆s

[lovati4]

Rafael Nadal ҆s forehand is a better role model than Roger Federer ҆s for girls (and for boys too). I will try to explain why I think so.
Brian Gordon and Rick Macci explain very clearly the advantages of the modern forehand in comparison to a classical forehand. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ehand_part_01/ But forehand they describe may have a clear disadvantage too. It has to do with a role of players wrist.
During the flip wrist is naturally laid back and it remains so till the point of contact.
As Brian Gordon mentioned himself players actually try to keep their wrist in a laid back position till and though point of contact. In practice it is very difficult to do. Because of that many players end up slapping the ball. And they lose control of the ball. It might actually be difficult to see and understand for a player or a coach. But in my view this is number one difficulty in learning modern technique.
In comparison in classical forehand wrist is placed in a required position long before contact. This distinction is looked at in detail in the following article. https://www.feeltennis.net/forehand-wrist-lag/
Solution
During the flip the racquet head falls back and down. At this moment as Brian Gordon explains 3 things happen. Players shoulder is externally rotated and the wrist is laid back. (Let ҆s leave forearm out of picture here for simplisity)
These in my view are both enhancements. They allow to create vertical racquet head speed and eventually spin. The key element here is to avoid slapping the ball forward with the wrist but to use laid back wrist to create spin. And do it naturally.
The only natural way to do that is to create radically low to high path of the racquet. During the flip the racquet head should fall low. You can suggest a comparison with a fabled dog Rick Macci envisioned. But this one is a little dog sitting close to the leg and a little bit behind it.
To do that a player should relax his (her) hand while pulling the racquet forward and allowing racquet head to fall down. At some point the racquet head will be close to perpendicular to the ground.
From this position it should go up. This path is really facilitated by external shoulder rotation and laid back wrist. Wrist snap will be minimized.
Now we see why Rafael Nadal is a very good role model for a modern forehand. His racquet head path is from very low to very high. This way his wrist becomes his best friend (and not his enemy you have to prevent from going to its natural position).
In the following video clips from Tennis player archive you can pause the video to see the lowest point of the racquet path.
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=
Rick Macci said that with this technique you can hit a true heavy ball. It might be better to say that with this technique you have to hit a heavy ball. Only if you move racquet head from low to high you get sound technique.
This might explain why few girl adopt modern forehand. They want to reliably hit relatively flat ball like other girls do. It is not possible with this technique.
Again we can look at how Rafael Nadal uses his forehand. His game begins with a high return applying a lot of spin to the ball. Then he continues to play like than with high margin over the net and from the baseline. This way a player can be very consistent and create nice angles with modern technique.

[stotty]

Terrific post...thought-provoking for sure.

I am just wondering where the straight arm versus double bend figures in all this? It's a while since I studied BG's articles but doesn't the straight arm method offer a steeper run up to the contact point...by default?

I would take either Rafa's or Roger's forehand as a model based on the hitting arm structure of the student I was coaching. Both forehands are superb and equally as good. Nadal's is a tad more secure perhaps but Roger's is a lot prettier.

[stroke]

I would give the edge to the Rafa fh just because I have seen him bludgeon so many opponents with it and he does not have all the other shot options of Roger. As Stotty said, Fed's is more easy on the eye but Rafa's in its own way is pretty also. They both have absolute maximum wrist lag which is certainly a key component for them. The straight arm hitting configuration does afford the purest way get to this maximum wrist lag(BG may have said as much). What Rafa may do best is really use his shoulder to the max in the external/internal rotation phase(straight arm configuration again here affords max usage). All this together gets his unique work on the ball.

[lovati4]

Thank you Stotty for your kind words.
The initial post considers mainly the role of the wrist and racquet path in modern forehand. As for arm configuration I agree with Brian Gordon. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._arm_forehand/
He thinks that it is not necessery at all to play with a fully streight arm. You can hit modern forehand very well with slightly bent arm. It allows to almost fully use shoulder external to internal rotation (to create vertical racquet head speed). It might also be better for the elbow.

[arturohernandez]

Very interesting. A few years back I hit the reverse forehand for about 9 months. It was incredible as I could generate a ton of topspin and the ball never missed. It is tough on the shoulder but the feeling I had was that I could easily elicit a short ball or just make people miss.

I can still do it but it is tough on the body.

For me it really taught me how to hit topspin and I can incorporate that feeling into a regular forehand with a more traditional finish.

However, the reverse forehand is such an incredible shot and I can see why Nadal uses it so much.

And yes, it does teach you what low to high really is.

I have taught my 14-year-old daughter to use it in order to generate more topspin.

And I can see her incorporating that feeling into a more traditional finish.

Otherwise she tends to hit a flatter shot just as you noted.

[stotty]

Thank you Stotty for your kind words.
The initial post considers mainly the role of the wrist and racquet path in modern forehand. As for arm configuration I agree with Brian Gordon. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._arm_forehand/
He thinks that it is not necessery at all to play with a fully streight arm. You can hit modern forehand very well with slightly bent arm. It allows to almost fully use shoulder external to internal rotation (to create vertical racquet head speed). It might also be better for the elbow.

Have you seen Rafa and Roger play live? Both have a lot of control over how much spin they get. I think Roger could likely get just as much as Rafa if he had the same grip. It's tough to compare their forehands by just looking at a couple of factors. The grip and arm configuration have to play a significant part. Player intention is also a factor.

[lovati4]

The reverse forehand finish is a prominent element of Rafael Nadals forehand. Most players try it sometimes to learn it or just for fun. On the other hand he uses across the body finish quite often too.
I think that the key element in terms of creating spin is the flip. For that a player should relax his (her) hand while pulling the racquet forward allowing racquet head to fall down. At some point the racquet head will be close to perpendicular to the ground. From that moment it goes up. John Yandell explains that in the following article https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...f_low_to_high/
Now we explain this idea, thanks to Brian Gordon, by using the terms flip and shoulder external rotation which then reverses itself to shoulder internal rotation. This way a player creates vertical racquet head speed and spin.

[lovati4]

Have you seen Rafa and Roger play live? Both have a lot of control over how much spin they get. I think Roger could likely get just as much as Rafa if he had the same grip. It's tough to compare their forehands by just looking at a couple of factors. The grip and arm configuration have to play a significant part. Player intention is also a factor.

Unfortunatly I have not. Roger Federer can hit any forehand possible. On the other hand, lets look at two of his typical forehands in the following video clips (just video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Cq2VmPfrU min 4-5
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=
It seems very difficult to manage wrist motion and hit the ball consistently like that. That’s why I like Rafael Nadal typical forehand better. With very low to high motion it is much easier to manage your wrist motion and avoid slaping the ball forward. And a player keeps all the advantages of the modern forehand technique
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=

[bman]

Nobody has been able to copy Nadal's forehand. One of the main reason's he's still so dominant. So clearly it is very difficult to teach.

[lovati4]

Nobody has been able to copy Nadal's forehand. One of the main reason's he's still so dominant. So clearly it is very difficult to teach.

This post does not suggest making a copy of Rafael Nadal's forehand. On the other hand I really like the way he lets his racqet head fall low (as part of the flip) and then makes it go up. I think it makes modern forehand technique the way Brian Gordon and Rick Macci described it reliable.

[stotty]

Unfortunatly I have not. Roger Federer can hit any forehand possible. On the other hand, lets look at two of his typical forehands in the following video clips (just video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Cq2VmPfrU min 4-5
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=
It seems very difficult to manage wrist motion and hit the ball consistently like that. That’s why I like Rafael Nadal typical forehand better. With very low to high motion it is much easier to manage your wrist motion and avoid slaping the ball forward. And a player keeps all the advantages of the modern forehand technique
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...50fps.mp4&new=

I don't see any problem with Roger's forehand in terms of the wrist, nor would I say that he slaps the balls. For me, it's just perfect. He will generally miss more than Rafa because he is more offensive. In fact, he is nearly always offensive when hitting a forehand.

I guess the bottom line is Roger's forehand has more versatility but Rafa's is more secure. But if I had to choose whose forehand I would rather have on match point, it would be Rafa's.

[doctorhl]

Any one have a comment on either style in relation to injuries, particularly wrist, elbow or shoulder.

[lovati4]

I don't see any problem with Roger's forehand in terms of the wrist, nor would I say that he slaps the balls. For me, it's just perfect. He will generally miss more than Rafa because he is more offensive. In fact, he is nearly always offensive when hitting a forehand.

I guess the bottom line is Roger's forehand has more versatility but Rafa's is more secure. But if I had to choose whose forehand I would rather have on match point, it would be Rafa's.

It is funny we even discuss this issue. I just wanted to draw attention to the role of the wrist and racqet path in the modern forehand the way Brian Gordon and Rick Macci described it.

[lovati4]

Any one have a comment on either style in relation to injuries, particularly wrist, elbow or shoulder.

I think the modern technique is really safe. But I noticed one issue. If a player tries to force fully straight arm on the forehand. This can lead to excessive load on the elbow. Brian Gordon does not like it either. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._arm_forehand/.

[stotty]

I still think the grip might be more influential than the wrist since the role of wrist plays is, we are told, passive and more to do with alignment. The classical forehand which uses, say, a continental or moderate eastern grip, has no lag and racket leads at contact, so very different than today's forehands. It's only when grips became more extreme that the modern forehand started to come about.

If the wrist is playing any role here, you would think it would be a consequence, or even governed by, the player's grip.