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  • Vision Issues

    RQUOTE=chrislewit;n37486]eye dominance and the deep turn



    I would like to say that I'm interested if anyone has studied eye dominance and it's connection to the amount of shoulder turn preparation players feel comfortable with on the groundstrokes. It is an interesting topic for discussion. Jofre Porta, a well known coach in Spain, first introduced me to this idea. He hypothesized that some players prefer open stances and open body positions with less of a deep turn because they were right eye dominant (on the forehand) or left eye dominant (on the backhand). I have not read any research yet to corroborate this theory. It is an interesting idea and connects eye dominance to shoulder turn. For example, some players with this eye dominance issue, may not feel comfortable with an extreme deep turn and closed stance. But in my experience, most one handers learn to get that full deep turn--the pro shoulder turn--because it gives them more disguise and power.[/QUOTE]


    I found this old post from Chris Lewis. In learning the new school one handed backhand topspin, I personally found difficulty in positioning and making good EARLY contact, especially with a closed stance? I noticed two things:

    1.When I make that early contact, only half of my right glass lens was in the field of view, especially in a closed stance. I do not have that vision occlusion of the glass lens problem with the forehand, no matter what stance.
    2.I am left eyed dominant (I should shoot a rifle or bat a baseball left handed- I don’t). I can get my dominant eye in the field of vision better if I use an open stance on the backhand, but can’t maneuver the swing. My forehand already has the dominant left eye in the field of view.

    To late for this old dog to go open stance backhand, but has any one noticed either of these two items, and if so, is there any significance?

  • #2
    Great questions. Vision is on my list to investigate.

    Comment


    • #3
      after reading a couple articles/yt/books about vision, i dabbled with hitting with either eye closed... definitely a thing.
      i found it because i always found my vision distorted when tracking/hitting on the run... realized that my poor/tired footwork causes me to oscillate my head too much...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
        RQUOTE=chrislewit;n37486]eye dominance and the deep turn

        I would like to say that I'm interested if anyone has studied eye dominance and it's connection to the amount of shoulder turn preparation players feel comfortable with on the groundstrokes. It is an interesting topic for discussion. Jofre Porta, a well known coach in Spain, first introduced me to this idea. He hypothesized that some players prefer open stances and open body positions with less of a deep turn because they were right eye dominant (on the forehand) or left eye dominant (on the backhand). I have not read any research yet to corroborate this theory. It is an interesting idea and connects eye dominance to shoulder turn. For example, some players with this eye dominance issue, may not feel comfortable with an extreme deep turn and closed stance. But in my experience, most one handers learn to get that full deep turn--the pro shoulder turn--because it gives them more disguise and power.
        I was discussing the "dominant eye" with a student on the forum back in July of 2011. Coincidentally it was about the "one-handed backhand versus the two-handed". Rather interesting case...I think.

        https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...o-handed/page2
        don_budge
        Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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        • #5
          Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
          RQUOTE=chrislewit;n37486]eye dominance and the deep turn



          I would like to say that I'm interested if anyone has studied eye dominance and it's connection to the amount of shoulder turn preparation players feel comfortable with on the groundstrokes. It is an interesting topic for discussion. Jofre Porta, a well known coach in Spain, first introduced me to this idea. He hypothesized that some players prefer open stances and open body positions with less of a deep turn because they were right eye dominant (on the forehand) or left eye dominant (on the backhand). I have not read any research yet to corroborate this theory. It is an interesting idea and connects eye dominance to shoulder turn. For example, some players with this eye dominance issue, may not feel comfortable with an extreme deep turn and closed stance. But in my experience, most one handers learn to get that full deep turn--the pro shoulder turn--because it gives them more disguise and power.
          With a little experimenting here in my lab...I have come to the conclusion that if the dominant eye loses "sight" because of a hindrance like the deep turn you are describing that the other eye will take over and become dominant. Perhaps NYTA is suggesting as much...in a roundabout way.
          don_budge
          Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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          • #6
            Using Senaptec glasses to work on players vision. Haven’t used them long enough yet to post feedback.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bobbyswift View Post
              Using Senaptec glasses to work on players vision. Haven’t used them long enough yet to post feedback.
              What's the concept? Anything different? Bifocals? I think I need glasses for golf. Are these an option?
              don_budge
              Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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              • #8
                Originally posted by don_budge View Post

                With a little experimenting here in my lab...I have come to the conclusion that if the dominant eye loses "sight" because of a hindrance like the deep turn you are describing that the other eye will take over and become dominant. Perhaps NYTA is suggesting as much...in a roundabout way.
                For what it’s worth: I an left eyed dominant and right handed. When I have someone stand behind my putter and I line the head up, It is never lined up square to the hole. If I line the putter up to putt, left handed, the observer says I am lined up correctly. So in tennis I am thinking, open stance on my one hand backhand to keep that left eye on the ball. But.......Warwrinka I’m not.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bobbyswift View Post
                  Using Senaptec glasses to work on players vision. Haven’t used them long enough yet to post feedback.
                  Hopefully the pro athlete testimonies for this system end up justifying the cost.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Senaptec occludes images. They strobe in the basic format and have 8 levels of difficulty. They allow you to work one eye at a time in that one eye is closed and the other is flashing at different speeds. They were originally made by Nike for their elite athlete programs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by doctorhl View Post

                      For what it’s worth: I an left eyed dominant and right handed. When I have someone stand behind my putter and I line the head up, It is never lined up square to the hole. If I line the putter up to putt, left handed, the observer says I am lined up correctly. So in tennis I am thinking, open stance on my one hand backhand to keep that left eye on the ball. But.......Warwrinka I’m not.
                      johnyandell I was re-reading his article about the one handed backhand just last week.

                      There is a really nice section on classic vs. extreme variations. In one picture, you can see Henin much more open and hitting it more out in front.

                      https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._backhand.html

                      I wonder if these variations have something to do with vision as well. I am right eye dominant and hit with a classic backhand and my daughter does as well and is also right eye dominant. Both of us prefer the open stance forehand. I had pros fight with me to hit closed stance and it just never worked. In fact, for a while I hit the reverse forehand. I love this forehand and can see the ball very well.

                      On your 1HBH, you could experiment with a slightly more extreme grip that will allow you to open a bit more and see the ball better.

                      If it works for you, then we might understand why some people use more extreme 1HBH grips than others.
                      Last edited by arturohernandez; 08-26-2019, 07:08 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                        johnyandell I was re-reading his article about the one handed backhand just last week.

                        There is a really nice section on classic vs. extreme variations. In one picture, you can see Henin much more open and hitting it more out in front.

                        https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._backhand.html

                        I wonder if these variations have something to do with vision as well. I am right eye dominant and hit with a classic backhand and my daughter does as well and is also right eye dominant. Both of us prefer the open stance forehand. I had pros fight with me to hit closed stance and it just never worked. In fact, for a while I hit the reverse forehand. I love this forehand and can see the ball very well.

                        On your 1HBH, you could experiment with a slightly more extreme grip that will allow you to open a bit more and see the ball better.

                        If it works for you, then we might understand why some people use more extreme 1HBH grips than others.

                        Arturo, you are right, I can see the ball better with a more extreme backhand grip. Now, if I can just learn how to hit it with that new grip!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Putting and Backhands...the position of the eyes

                          Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
                          For what it’s worth: I an left eyed dominant and right handed. When I have someone stand behind my putter and I line the head up, It is never lined up square to the hole. If I line the putter up to putt, left handed, the observer says I am lined up correctly. So in tennis I am thinking, open stance on my one hand backhand to keep that left eye on the ball. But.......Warwrinka I’m not.

                          In golf circles putting your eyes directly over the ball when putting is pretty much the conventional wisdom. But at 2.05 in this superlative video with Phil Mickleson on the short game he emphatically defies the status quo and says that the eyes should be behind the ball. If you understand golf speak and I believe that doctorhi does, this seems to support his theory. If your dominant eye is left and you putt right-handed...you need to get that eye behind the ball as it is when you switch over to the other side. I know that many on the forum do not play golf, which is too bad, because the two sports are very much related as much as they are different. An odd relationship if there ever was one.

                          Phil's theory also supports your observation of the open stance and also it would help to strengthen your grip to take the ball further in front of you in order to utilise your dominant eye to the maximum.
                          don_budge
                          Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by doctorhl View Post


                            Arturo, you are right, I can see the ball better with a more extreme backhand grip. Now, if I can just learn how to hit it with that new grip!!
                            You could also just hit a bit more open. Maybe not too extreme but just a bit more extreme. I would play with it to see if there is a grip that allows you to hit comfortably while at the same time being a little more open toward the ball.

                            I am sure that you can find a compromise that gives you enough vision and a reasonable grip with which to hit.

                            Let me know how it is working out!

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