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2019 Nitto ATP Finals...ATP 1500...London, England

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  • don_budge
    started a topic 2019 Nitto ATP Finals...ATP 1500...London, England

    2019 Nitto ATP Finals...ATP 1500...London, England

    Plays like an "exhibition format". Still...there will be takeaways. Stay tuned. Stay focused. Roger Federer in the house and in the same half as Novak Djokovic which may turn into a blessing of sorts.

    https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/cu...nals/605/draws

  • stroke
    replied
    Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post
    And I don't know why but I keep thinking that Thiem will win the FO. His game is not ideal on hard courts but on a clay court only Nadal at his very best can beat him and then it will be a tough ask should it go into a fifth set.
    It is clear to all that Thiem is a great clay court player, maybe overall the 2nd best clay courter in the world for about 3 years now. I guess the burning question will be where he is at when Nadal finally is not the best out there on clay. Roger was the 2nd best clay courter in the world for several years, and he was fortunate to get that one FO title.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    And I don't know why but I keep thinking that Thiem will win the FO. His game is not ideal on hard courts but on a clay court only Nadal at his very best can beat him and then it will be a tough ask should it go into a fifth set.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    It certainly is a big ask. I am just kind of thinking out loud about the next in line from Lendl to Sampras to Fed, Nadal, and Novak. Stefanos may be the best bet for a multiple winner. It looks more likely the baton may hit the ground. And that is not even taking into account what those 3 have done in the Masters 1000's.
    He looks like the heir apparent and he has a true all court game. Nadal and Novak may end up being the exception. Maybe the era of the two hander dominating GS's is coming to a close. Right now it looks like the one hander in the men's game is making a come back at the very top.

    Of course, it may be a chicken-egg problem. Only an exceptional athlete and player can survive with a one hander today. So those that make it are simply able to push through and reach the top.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    It certainly is a big ask. I am just kind of thinking out loud about the next in line from Lendl to Sampras to Fed, Nadal, and Novak. Stefanos may be the best bet for a multiple winner. It looks more likely the baton may hit the ground. And that is not even taking into account what those 3 have done in the Masters 1000's.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post

    Multiple Grand Slams? They have to win one first. Winning a Grand Slam is a pinnacle achievement for a tennis player. The strange set of circumstances in the game of "Modern Tennis" shows a domination of the majors by a few select players. Very few outsiders have broken through...Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka notable exceptions. Interesting that these two will be part of the mix next year and how are they going to respond?

    These guys are going to have to break through with one first though. To make it through two weeks under the best of five format is big time. But they are knocking on the door with Medvedev only be held off by Nadal as he hem and hawed his way down the stretch. Repeatedly holding up the serve and stalling at this years U. S. Open. But multiples? That's interesting to think about. Once one of these guys break through...or if two do...or when all three do then it will be another era completely. Djokovic cannot be counted out yet. He has shown signs of not being so invincible at times but on the other hand he has been awfully tough. Wimbledon comes to mind. The Australian comes to mind. That is still fifty percent of the haul. The 2018 U. S. Open...nearly a quasi Slam.

    The future will be revealed but we have to wait. Time is creeping on.
    Multiple is a big ask. But we could have four younger champions next year. Thiem at the FO. Tstisipas/Medvedev at the US Open and AO. I'll save Wimbledon for Feds swan song. HIs last hoorah much like Sampras at the US Open in 2002.

    I am 50/50 on Djokovic. Of course, he always seems to bounce back. So does Nadal and so does Federer. But both Djokovic and Nadal seem to be having health problems at around the age that most players do. And there is no way to up anything. No larger head size, no way to shorten points consistently and win. Both rely on defense to win matches and the transition to a more aggressive all-court game will come less naturally. Fed bought himself a few years by retooling but I am not sure that the other big two will be able to pull that off.

    My sense is that they will be facing a younger and hungrier player that will simply not fatigue as quickly.

    Like McEnroe against Borg and Safin against Sampras. At some point, the younger player arrives and the old guard simply cannot keep up.

    Based on what I saw at the WTF this year, I think it will be next year. The AO will indeed be very interesting!
    Last edited by arturohernandez; 11-19-2019, 03:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • klacr
    replied
    At least two players with one-handed backhands made the finals. It's still around and that's never a bad thing. I was hoping for Federer like others on the thread but ultimately I'm glad the new generation is stepping up. It will make the void much more bearable.

    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
    Boca Raton

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    It will be interesting to see if any of these players db mentioned can accumulate multiple GS's. Next year will be very interesting. Fed is still a threat at Wimbledon. Can Thiem or Stefanos take out Nadal at FO? AO will answer a lot of questions early.
    Multiple Grand Slams? They have to win one first. Winning a Grand Slam is a pinnacle achievement for a tennis player. The strange set of circumstances in the game of "Modern Tennis" shows a domination of the majors by a few select players. Very few outsiders have broken through...Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka notable exceptions. Interesting that these two will be part of the mix next year and how are they going to respond?

    These guys are going to have to break through with one first though. To make it through two weeks under the best of five format is big time. But they are knocking on the door with Medvedev only be held off by Nadal as he hem and hawed his way down the stretch. Repeatedly holding up the serve and stalling at this years U. S. Open. But multiples? That's interesting to think about. Once one of these guys break through...or if two do...or when all three do then it will be another era completely. Djokovic cannot be counted out yet. He has shown signs of not being so invincible at times but on the other hand he has been awfully tough. Wimbledon comes to mind. The Australian comes to mind. That is still fifty percent of the haul. The 2018 U. S. Open...nearly a quasi Slam.

    The future will be revealed but we have to wait. Time is creeping on.

    Leave a comment:


  • arturohernandez
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    It will be interesting to see if any of these players db mentioned can accumulate multiple GS's. Next year will be very interesting. Fed is still a threat at Wimbledon. Can Thiem or Stefanos take out Nadal at FO? AO will answer a lot of questions early.
    What a final!! Tsisipas is so quick and explosive. Made Roger look slow. Thiem can win the FO. Are we seeing the new era emerging? What about the idea that young players would no longer dominate like before?

    The AO will be very interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    It will be interesting to see if any of these players db mentioned can accumulate multiple GS's. Next year will be very interesting. Fed is still a threat at Wimbledon. Can Thiem or Stefanos take out Nadal at FO? AO will answer a lot of questions early.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    One takeaway from the year ending Tour Championships is the obvious inevitable changing of the guard. Also there are the five players to consider among the youngsters. What lies ahead in the future?

    It's difficult to tell. I mean...it's hard enough to figure out what they have just seen. Signs...I see signs. The signs of things to come. I think that Zverev and Berretinni are sort of wild cards so far. Neither has shown the ability to sustain a high level of play for a significant period of time. This is a hallmark of greatness and Roger Federer is playing in his 23rd season on the tour. Yet he climbed to a height that even surprised him during this tournament. Unfortunately he couldn't sustain it when he should have by all accounts. There really was no rhyme or reason for such a mediocre...poor by his standards against the eventual winner. Go figure. He's getting long in the tooth...was that it? Did he not want to face Theim who dominated him as well in the first round? There are a number of permutations and combinations...with varying degrees of relevance.

    But the other three...Medvedev, Theim and Tsitsipas are showing signs of being there. All three are showing signs of staring adversity in the face and just sucking it up and playing through it. I noticed this trait in Stefanos early on in his rise. He was losing the first set to some of these really good journeymen and playing through it. Just believing in himself that he belonged when the result initially said he didn't. That is the kind of belief that is endemic in the champion. Once again in the final he lost the first set to a player who arguably had the hot hand at the end of the year and he bounced back. Never losing sight of the finish line and somehow managing to get the horse there...in the barn where he belongs.

    Dominic Theim has also shown a lot of resolve and even in this tournament which he didn't win he showed some real grit and courage. He just mowed down Federer in the first round then he played it toe to toe with the ultimate tennis backboard...Novak Djokovic. After losing the first set as well. Novak is usually a sure thing if he wins the first set. Did he show just a shadow of vulnerability? I think he did. A chink in his armour. So Dominic is the real thing I think. He is going to be a tough out for anyone in the future. But does he feel comfortable with his new status as one of the elite or does he get that deer in the headlights look too. He has in the past. It's developmental. There are levels to the game...that was a book by Arthur Ashe in the 70's by the way.

    Daniil Medvedev was basically stretched a little thin at the end of the year and that is another reference to my nickname for him..."Mr. Pencil". A pencil in the hands of the right assassin is a lethal weapon so that is no belittling comment. Not at all. This skinny guy is as tough as nails. Even as Nadal ran him down and drove the stake through his heart this guy was scoffing at the idea. The very idea. He knew very well that he was failing...physically. He didn't have the juice. This fellow had the longest season of all. By far. He is one tough customer and I love his attitude.

    So there you go. Three players that have set themselves apart from the rest of the up and comers. That is not to say that in the next year or two that they too won't be overtaken by the hungry wolves who are going to be nipping at their heels. But now all three are going to double down and go to work with brass tacks. Knuckle down. It's interesting. One never knows about the future. Or do they? I remind you...three of the four were one-handed backhands on a quicker surface. The tennis while not as perfect was actually better. Points were quicker. Less mind numbing, fucking repetitive, boring beyond imagination back court play. The worm has turned...or?

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    Thiem is an oh so slight favorite over Tsitsipas. It is not often one sees these kind of odds in a big final. I personally like Tsitsipas in this one, but as we all know, these 2 are so close in all aspects of the game and both are so likeable. A real credit to the best of tennis.
    I missed the match. The streaming site I use failed to deliver. Usually very dependable. What a great match up between Stefanos Tsitsipas and Dominic Theim. One-handed backhands!!! The ATP Tour Finals dominated by one-handed backhands. Interesting turn of events. Stefanos has a big one under his belt now which only increases the size of the target on his back now. I like that he lost the first set and battled back. This was one of the traits that first got my attention to him. He will need this kind of resilience to eat his way up the food chain. I wonder if this will effect his ranking.

    Leave a comment:


  • stroke
    replied
    Thiem is an oh so slight favorite over Tsitsipas. It is not often one sees these kind of odds in a big final. I personally like Tsitsipas in this one, but as we all know, these 2 are so close in all aspects of the game and both are so likeable. A real credit to the best of tennis.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by stroke View Post
    What a performance by Tsitsipas. And he is so watchable.
    Yep...he is almost what you call adorable. What kind of future does he have in store for him? Time will tell...as it creeps on.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_budge
    replied
    Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
    Fed demonstrated how much serve accuracy( in wide and shallow areas of service box) and a slice backhand can achieve, especially on a fast court.
    Summed up in a nutshell. The good doctor. Roger is the best server in professional tennis in terms of Classic motion and Classic tactics. One could argue that he is the only one. His foundation of serve and tactics was originally to compete on slick grass. This was before the "powers that be" in the tennis braintrust or lack of braintrust decided upon the current course.

    The slice backhand is just a awesome shot. It is his go to tactical decider. He had a tough going yesterday and both of the points that doctorhl make were lacking in Federer's performance or rather lack of performance. I sat here watching the match with my protege Gustaf and Roger looked to be...old. Not old old. But old enough to be out of synch. Who knows...he has had problems in the past in London. Maybe the match with Djokovic was enough for the veteran. Revenge for one of the toughest losses of his career. He was absolutely beaming after that match. Gushing about how well he played. As if he couldn't believe it himself that he had reached that level of performance.

    Knowing what I know about tennis players and their performance...they are their own worst critics. But Roger had played an "enlightened" match of white light proportions and he knew it and couldn't hide his satisfaction. At his age...at ever age...performance is the prime indicator. At thirty-eight years old mentally, physically and emotionally you have to be all there. There was/is a indicator of performance that used to be aware of a bit. Based on the sin curve for the three elements. It will come to me. But if you follow the indicators over time you get an bit of insight as to a possible cause for performance...be it good or bad. Biorhythms. That's the ticket. But during the course of the sin curve there are what you call critical days...days that one of the elements might leave you feeling out of whack. Or maybe two elements are askew making things a bit more complicated. Then there is the dreaded day once in a blue moon where all of the elements have you in the dog house. You are basically fucked. Just a theory.

    Stefanos Tsitsipas is going to the finals of the ATP Tour Championships. God Bless him. A refreshing young man. A beautiful one-handed backhand. He is going to meet Dominic Theim...another beautiful example of how human beings evolve to higher levels. Another one-handed backhand. The surface is quicker at the championships. For years I have been the voice in the wilderness continuously harping on well...just about everything. Taking the position against the majority is alarming to some but somehow it is in my wheelhouse. It is my comfort zone. I take great solace. I don't really care if it is everyone else on the planet against me. don_quixote.

    But tennis is cyclical...as well as political. There are often influences that have come from outside of the game itself. The game being a holy place in the minds of men that have played it for literally forever. With respect. With honour. Somehow we have come back to one of the origins. If only symbolically. I, for one, feel vindicated. Almost to the point where I will quit. Almost there. So is Roger. God Bless you Roger. That match against Novak Djokovic had the same redeeming effect on me as it did you. Thank you Lord.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46pKSylbdSc

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