Volleying - Chalk and Cheese.

[valerieden56]

'kl'k'

[arturohernandez]

When one plays with a wooden racket these days it seems remarkable we all managed to play quite so well with one. When I force one of my performance players (yes I force them) to play with a wooden racket against another member of the squad who plays with a modern racket, they lose 6-0 every time. Even the best player in the squad loses 6-0. That's how big the gulf is between wood and modern...huge.

I liked the game best around the late 80's. The rackets and strings offered more versatility and power than wood without being too overwhelming in the ground shot department. All round tennis was at it's best around then.

It is has been a while! I lost the thread here. I also played one time for a whole summer with a wood racket. It really improved my game. I might pull out an old wooden racket that my son has and have my daughter hit with it.

The extra weight might also help her serve. It is hard to hit any stroke with just the arm with a heavy stick.

[stotty]

Another great volleyer is John Newcombe. He got in quickly behind he s serve and placed his volleys often very deep. I guess Newcombe would be criticised these days for having a high elbow on his serve. Oddly enough it doesn't seem to harm his delivery in any way. He has a lovely rhythm and sway to his serve which I really like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CODH451YfiE

[stotty]

Here are two guys who definitely knew their way around the net. Two of the best backhand volleys you will ever see. Despite their diddy rackets, the volleys they hit are often travelling quicker than most players hit them today. Both players are comfortable volleying below the height of the net and, crucially, unlike most players today, they are 'comfortable' at the net. A player who isn't truly 'comfortable' around the net could never volley like the players in the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJubuKDN7Fk

[stotty]

HOWEVER, given what we know about classic slice vs extreme slice, are the kids who hit sharply chopping down volleys onto something? Does extreme oncoming topspin necessitate a steeper volley swing?

Interesting question. I'm not sure if any research has been done in that field. Personally, I don't see any need to chop down on volleys in the modern game. Volleying is the one stroke in tennis that, technically, from a teaching standpoint, hasn't changed. John may have noticed technical changes on the volley perhaps that I haven't. I just see a dramatic deterioration in volleying standards rather than technical changes.

[stotty]

Just practicing volleying with a wooden racquet may be a bit eye opening, the weight of a wood racquet is a much more substantial feel vs a modern racquet, unless one is using a racquet such a the Fed racquet, which coincidentally is weighted just about like the specs Fed has always played with(and not far from a wood racquet).

When one plays with a wooden racket these days it seems remarkable we all managed to play quite so well with one. When I force one of my performance players (yes I force them) to play with a wooden racket against another member of the squad who plays with a modern racket, they lose 6-0 every time. Even the best player in the squad loses 6-0. That's how big the gulf is between wood and modern...huge.

I liked the game best around the late 80's. The rackets and strings offered more versatility and power than wood without being too overwhelming in the ground shot department. All round tennis was at it's best around then.

[glacierguy]

I learnt with wooden racquets, and somewhere on this site read advice on volleying which was to imagine striking three balls in a row. This advice is absolutely the way to hit classic volleys in my opinion. HOWEVER, given what we know about classic slice vs extreme slice, are the kids who hit sharply chopping down volleys onto something? Does extreme oncoming topspin necessitate a steeper volley swing?

[stroke]

Using wooden rackets during given development stages of juniors is such a good thing to do. You simply cannot get away with being lazy with wood. You have to watch the ball much better and get down to low shots in a way people sometimes opt not to with modern rackets because they can get away with it. I once played for a month with a wooden racket and when I reverted back to my Babolat Aero I hit the ball so well it was amazing. This is because I had to work so much harder with wood in every aspect and it really honed parts of my game and my timing became vastly improved.

I will look forward to your article...

Just practicing volleying with a wooden racquet may be a bit eye opening, the weight of a wood racquet is a much more substantial feel vs a modern racquet, unless one is using a racquet such a the Fed racquet, which coincidentally is weighted just about like the specs Fed has always played with(and not far from a wood racquet).

[stotty]

Wood racquets? YES - they help players learn volleys, slices and all kinds of things. You will see some of this in my next series on developing touch. Stotty is spot on. dlh

Using wooden rackets during given development stages of juniors is such a good thing to do. You simply cannot get away with being lazy with wood. You have to watch the ball much better and get down to low shots in a way people sometimes opt not to with modern rackets because they can get away with it. I once played for a month with a wooden racket and when I reverted back to my Babolat Aero I hit the ball so well it was amazing. This is because I had to work so much harder with wood in every aspect and it really honed parts of my game and my timing became vastly improved.

I will look forward to your article...

[stotty]

Is it possible to temporarily modify a modern racquet to simulate a wooden racquet? I only ask because all of my wooden racquets are in the bin.The last ones I used were Dunlop Maxply Fort, but with an exciting black layer of graphite (about 1mm) in amongst the wooden layers.

You can usually pick up old Maxplys in second hand charity shops or on eBay. I have around 12 wooden rackets I have picked up here and there over the years.

[glacierguy]

Is it possible to temporarily modify a modern racquet to simulate a wooden racquet? I only ask because all of my wooden racquets are in the bin.The last ones I used were Dunlop Maxply Fort, but with an exciting black layer of graphite (about 1mm) in amongst the wooden layers.

[DavidLHagler]

Wood racquets? YES - they help players learn volleys, slices and all kinds of things. You will see some of this in my next series on developing touch. Stotty is spot on. dlh

[stotty]

Great post!!!

I wonder if the more extreme grips and spin that people use on their groundstrokes may take away from the volley. The almost exclusive use of two hands on the backhand does not help.

Every so often I imitate McEnroe while warming up with my daughter. I show her that he would use a single grip for forehands and backhands. Or at least that is how I think of it.

She can play with a single grip as well She uses a one handed backhand which has always led to a lot of slice when she was younger and not as strong. We work on her volleys at every practice. She often comes in to the net for part of the practice. I will use the skipping idea to see if it helps.

It is almost like two different games. The heavy game with two hands and playing from the backcourt gets people a long ways. I mean Djokovic made it to number one with a relatively weak forecourt game. Why should anyone else try and do it any other way?

Stotty, please give us the next unusual player. I only work with my kids and none of them will make a splash in tennis. But maybe those of you who coach will be able to show players that you can make an impact playing and old school game.

Classic tennis (that's wooden rackets if we are talking in the purest sense) and Modern tennis have zero in common anymore. Back then the balls were different, the rackets were different, the courts were different, the era and values were different, the style of play was different...probably they wore different underpants too. But one thing they did better then, despite vastly inferior equipment, was volley. Frank Sedgman, in my book, volleyed better than Cash and Edberg put together...and Cash and Edberg were pretty darn good.

My advice: teach your daughters to volley with wooden rackets. You cannot get away with poor technique with wood. In the development stages using wood is a really good idea. It's a potty idea to many, but guaranteed to work in terms of leading to good technique..

[arturohernandez]

Good point and great post.

Being inquisitive and willing to try things is an asset. Most kids are just willing (in fact want) to be told how to do things and then go out and do it. I am always amazed how many kids don't watch tennis matches on TV. They will watch sections of matches or snippets on YouTube and that's it. As John has said in the past, you can learn tennis by osmosis, soaking things up by watching others do it well. Pancho Gonzales learned from watching others and stole, as he put it, the best parts of others' game.

My big concern is how will players ever make their back to high level volleying after being entrenched in the baseline game for so long? The demographic of coaches over here suggests there are not too many coaches my age anymore; most are in the 30's or younger. Coaches in their thirties are adept at teaching ground strokes but are far less versed in the nuances of volleying. So who is going to teach the advanced volleying we see in the clip? Could it become a lost art? Or is it lost already?

The big take away from the clip is not just the volleying but the transitioning and the reading of the game. Above all it's the low volleys that are so good in the clip and which are completely extinct from the modern game. The majority of the tour are clueless at volleying below the heigh of the net. Roger is the exception, but even he doesn't get right under those low ones, or move in quite like Cash or Edberg, not really.

Great post!!!

I wonder if the more extreme grips and spin that people use on their groundstrokes may take away from the volley. The almost exclusive use of two hands on the backhand does not help.

Every so often I imitate McEnroe while warming up with my daughter. I show her that he would use a single grip for forehands and backhands. Or at least that is how I think of it.

She can play with a single grip as well She uses a one handed backhand which has always led to a lot of slice when she was younger and not as strong. We work on her volleys at every practice. She often comes in to the net for part of the practice. I will use the skipping idea to see if it helps.

It is almost like two different games. The heavy game with two hands and playing from the backcourt gets people a long ways. I mean Djokovic made it to number one with a relatively weak forecourt game. Why should anyone else try and do it any other way?

Stotty, please give us the next unusual player. I only work with my kids and none of them will make a splash in tennis. But maybe those of you who coach will be able to show players that you can make an impact playing and old school game.

[stotty]

This is really nice to watch. Paul Annacone makes a nice distinction between "serve and volleyers" and "servers who volley." These guys are the former and players like Sampras were the latter. I believe in teaching players to slice and volley very early on in their development, otherwise they will never really do it in matches. Re - Stotty's last point, I remember working with a 15 year old player several years ago. He was not someone I had taught previously although I knew him from a Competition Training Center I helped coach. He was a generally bright and inquisitive guy, and I asked if he ever tried to move his grip slightly one way or the other and he said, "No." I asked and he said - and I'm paraphrasing this was the grip he was taught to serve with and he was going to serve with that grip. I had him move his grip slightly and the first kick serve he hit landed in the box and bounced so high I could not get a racquet on it. I asked if this might work and he smiled and said, "Maybe." My point is this was a smart and very athletic person and in general someone who would not blindly follow. But so many good things happen as a result of experimentation. But many in this generation need to be encouraged to try ...

Good point and great post.

Being inquisitive and willing to try things is an asset. Most kids are just willing (in fact want) to be told how to do things and then go out and do it. I am always amazed how many kids don't watch tennis matches on TV. They will watch sections of matches or snippets on YouTube and that's it. As John has said in the past, you can learn tennis by osmosis, soaking things up by watching others do it well. Pancho Gonzales learned from watching others and stole, as he put it, the best parts of others' game.

My big concern is how will players ever make their back to high level volleying after being entrenched in the baseline game for so long? The demographic of coaches over here suggests there are not too many coaches my age anymore; most are in the 30's or younger. Coaches in their thirties are adept at teaching ground strokes but are far less versed in the nuances of volleying. So who is going to teach the advanced volleying we see in the clip? Could it become a lost art? Or is it lost already?

The big take away from the clip is not just the volleying but the transitioning and the reading of the game. Above all it's the low volleys that are so good in the clip and which are completely extinct from the modern game. The majority of the tour are clueless at volleying below the heigh of the net. Roger is the exception, but even he doesn't get right under those low ones, or move in quite like Cash or Edberg, not really.