Torn Meniscus, playing with brace, thoughts or suggestions?

[tenniscoach1]

tenniscoach1...I'm trying to imagine the thought process going into the name change. Knowing you...there is a reason. Or not. One thing you might want to check with jyandel about...is if your prior posts can be transferred under your new moniker and if your join date can be transferred as well. You probably had "Senior Member" status before and it is well and good to see the number of posts you have made to date. It's not as if you are a newcomer here. But welcome to "The New Kid in Town" just the same.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckmusic/c...town_dec_1976/

The senior monicker title is not overly important LOL ... lost access to the previous email/password so just signed up again.

[tenniscoach1]

What about alternative treatments? Tennis Coach 1 had some good suggestions. Any thoughts?

I think there are two things you need to think about here - #1 eccentric loading and #2 strengthening the feet. How about working on their foot strength/landing/rebounding ability? Where do athletes get hurt the most? Landings! Where are all you guys getting hurt - landings and not foot striking correctly. So, why not fix that issue? Your feet are the only two things in contact with the ground - your feet drive it all! The most durable athletes have the best foot strength/coordination. If you have weak feet how can your abs/hips/balance be good? Overspeed eccentrics - if you trainer does not understand rate of force speed production and how to increases kinetic energy so it gets stored in the soft tissues - if you have not trained specifically to improve stretch reflex ... well, you are going to get hurt. Try this - take the best athlete in your gym - the fastest one - and then take you. Test how quickly the fastest athlete in the gym can move him foot from A to B. Then take a blow torch - turn it on - and see how fast you move! I bet you will be the fastest guy in the gym now! Best coaches understand how to train what you already have naturally but don't know how to use. If you lift weights it will make you slower. Science at the university of Calgary has proven this by the way. Get a trainer that will work on your reflexes and stretch reflexes - my goal as a trainer is to get the feet right, do a ton of toe complexes, get the ball of the foot striking correctly so I have connective energy up the pathway, increase stretch reflex and ensure as my clients grow older they do not lose quick twitch (which can be trained by the way). The best way to determine the best athlete is simple - jump them off a three foot box and see who caves in and who caves in and see who can jump higher straight from the landing - if I want to make an athlete stronger all I have to do is make them better at descending jumps - if you worry about jumping off something or have that fear of jumping off a height then that tells me all I need to know about how you feet perform and how you cannot store energy. Start jumping off six inches with a good coach and rebounding like you are a human basketball. Find good coaches that understand these scientific principals and all is possible! Stay safe ...

[tenniscoach1]

This is one of the tools I use for ankle activations - it creates de-stabilization which is the name of the game - I do a lot of foot/toe complexes with these - if you have a knee issue - lower back - etc etc - any issue - it's 99% related to your feet as again those are the only two things touching the ground. I have yet to meet an ankle I have not been able to stabilize - and, when I do that combined with teaching proper foot striking, proper shoes and forcing the athlete to use proper joint angles improves quality of life. For a lot of you that are older stretch reflex becomes VERY IMPORTANT - so, I do quick twitch work. However, you need to get proper rest - never blow out your athlete nuerologically and understand the different types of paces you need to train athletes in to build the various types of strengths-powers-gears athletes need to perform in. Great training is useless if you take an athlete past a certain point of no return and don't understand the importance of rest and variance. Athletes are like a car - they have gears for different jobs - and you need to train that and understand that so they can perform in all situations as required (plus they need gas, maintenance etc etc). Stretch reflex - kids have it naturally, and they lose it so my job is to always maintain that through growth spurts and weight gain - because, when a child grows they lose neurology and if you do not re-start them from base #1 position they will get them worse. So, if you have a 10 year old and they grow 2 cm - you take them back to their 6 year old training day one - 7 year old day 2 - 8 year old day 3 etc etc till you got them properly built up - and by going back and re-establishing the neurology you will have a better athlete in the end. Generally speaking if you are a professional level coach you call previous coaches, see what the program was, see where the coaches knowledge gaps were and if you need to re-address the parts that they did not get around to teaching the child. The same relates to the pro's - baby steps - going back to the beginning and peaking them. These are pretty simply to build - zero chance of injury on these and they build the muscles in the feet that are number 1. Again - don't recommend braces - start with number 1. I also cut PVC pipe - have athletes walk on that - and then I use a ton of machines etc etc - and am doing about 1000 other small thing that you do when you have been at this game for a long time! PVC pipes and these disks will solve issues - and, at all costs I would advise to avoid weight training/weight lifting as the most un-athletic guys I meet are great bench pressers and have nice looking radial muscles that do nothing but look nice. I do train some power lifters from time to time - but, I am not teaching them how to lift more weight - I am teaching them to increase bar speed. If I can increase the bar speed - improve stretch reflex - teach them technically how to handle a bar/hit proper angles/inform them of proper volume methodologies and teach them to peak/taper and get them jumping better (yes, descending jumps makes power lifters stronger pushing a bar) - of course I will make them stronger in what they do. But, a tennis player I would not do that as I would make them very bad at tennis - I do other things. When a tennis player asks me how he can improve his chest or improve his abs or get more leg strength or improve his vertical - I know I have a lot of teaching to do ...

[glacierguy]

Fascinating stuff tenniscoach1, thanks. At a seriously layman level, your talk of destabilisation as a key aspect of training struck a chord with me, and it may help the OP. I train to prevent lower back injury and a favourite is one called arabesque - weight on one leg, arms crossed over chest, pivot at hips to position with one leg out back horizontal, torso out front horizontal, slowly pivot back to upright. When I started this I couldn't believe how good it was for ankle and foot strength (as well as lower back) because of the corrections needed to maintain balance. Once you've mastered that, do it on a wobble board (similar to your photo equipment?). Just thought this could be a start for someone without equipment.

[tenniscoach1]

If you want to train to protect the lower back one tool that makes it bullet proof is my lower back training machine. I do private orders on it, and once an athlete uses it they buy it. Easy machine to sell as the 1st time you use it - you get what it does. So no one trains the feet, no one trains the neck and ever coach is scared as hell to touch the spine. This piece you see here trains the spine! Safely! The equipment that I personally weld by hand makes life simple for coaches and I also do certification programs. So, for instance the Russian Samba Association bought three machines from me recently - their director is a former world number one - he came into my lab - tried the machines - I trained him on them and now they will use the system in their main national gym. I am doing certification for them this week. So this machine in pure layman's terms allows the spine to segment - fluid flow between the disks is important, it does that and its restorative which is important for tennis players, MMA fighters, hockey players ETC ETC who get beat up and face compression issues. So, with all one motion on this machine I can engage the hip flexors by getting the athlete to tuck under, I can take the spine in proper extension/flexion, engage the hamstrings - thoracic lumbar fascia ETC ETC. I have a 36 point assessment ranking system - and one of the main areas of concern I see in most athletes is they lose accessibility in tissues - so, I can regenerate a lot of blood flow with this machine. I am not big on inversion and traction tables as they do not solve underlying issues I assess. This machine here can rotate the sacrum - and, it allows me to keep on top of the L1 to L5 segment which is always problematic and needs to be kept on top of 24/7 with athletes which is why I always have an athlete go through an assessment system #1 thing - if they don't pass they are not playing and we move into a corrective phase. Loading and training tissue, and providing circulation is the name of the game. So, a big challenge you face as a trainer is how to train avascular disks - avascular means no blood flow - so, what I design actually pumps these areas up. When you get on a device like this one you feel a lot different - its tough to explain, their is decades of science behind it and it would take years to explain - but, it works, keeps athletes healthy and the results in terms of power/ability to hold neurology/technique/form/sports specific strength and durability are obvious. Generally speaking if you have the expertise to get the body in alignment, put the pieces together, fire the neurology correctly it is not a challenging thing to install the correct tennis/hockey/fighting mechanic into an athlete. The best are the best because they move the best - most do it naturally but you can take a bad athlete and make them into a good one these days with where sports science is at - and most importantly you can extend a career by many many many years - today you can keep stretch reflex and have ballistic movements at a high level with performance athletes into the 35/40 range. The funny thing is back in the 50's/60's you'd see a lot of guys performing well into the late 30's and then in the 80's/90's they would drop off at 28 ... why is this happening ... well, the old school coaches like me know the science from the 50's and 60's, apply it and it is the new. Give you an example - everyone does silly abdominal work - well - I give my athletes a shovel - I have a hill of sand and they shovel, I do farmers walks with a kettlebell in one hand - old school stuff - take a program like Farmer Burns from the 1920's and it will work better than any of the crap that is on the market, study Russian, learn to speak it and study the work of revolutionary trainer Yuri Verkhoshanski - its all there folks. No magic to it - you just gotta get on the boat - can of skoal - 12 pack of beer and read/think/invent.

[don_budge]

Generally speaking if you have the expertise to get the body in alignment, put the pieces together, fire the neurology correctly it is not a challenging thing to install the correct tennis/hockey/fighting mechanic into an athlete. The best are the best because they move the best - most do it naturally but you can take a bad athlete and make them into a good one...The funny thing is back in the 50's/60's you'd see a lot of guys performing well into the late 30's and then in the 80's/90's they would drop off at 28 ... why is this happening ... well, the old school coaches like me know the science from the 50's and 60's, apply it and it is the new. Give you an example - everyone does silly abdominal work - well - I give my athletes a shovel - I have a hill of sand and they shovel, I do farmers walks with a kettlebell in one hand - old school stuff - take a program like Farmer Burns from the 1920's and it will work better than any of the crap that is on the market, study Russian, learn to speak it and study the work of revolutionary trainer Yuri Verkhoshanski - its all there folks. No magic to it - you just gotta get on the boat - can of skoal - 12 pack of beer and read/think/invent.

"Go pound sand!" I love it. The farmer walk. Better yet.

I've got a shovel and and a pile of wood shavings for the horse bedding. Whenever they deliver the three loads it is up to me to move this mountain to the front of the stable. It's good work and I love it. Maybe I'll order a pile of sand and just pound it into next week. Farmer's walk? A couple of buckets of water down to the horse's field. Or, twenty some pounds in each hand down to the mail box and back. Throw in 20 sets of jumping rope with fifty jumps with little pause in between each set. Walk the wolf...go as far as you like. Pick a trail, any trail. I admit to doing some silly ab work too. Basic stuff. I'm a farmer too! There is no healthier life style.

Given two players with equal strokes and ability...the one that gets into position better more often is going to come out on top. Tennis develops quickness and movement. Play five sets a day. You'll see a change. Like a cat...hockeyscout. A mean, ornery cat.

[tenniscoach1]

"Go pound sand!" I love it. The farmer walk. Better yet.

I've got a shovel and and a pile of wood shavings for the horse bedding. Whenever they deliver the three loads it is up to me to move this mountain to the front of the stable. It's good work and I love it.

You want to work rotation here - so do you strong side rotation #1 - when you feel you technique break down do not go all Rocky - switch sides - optimal technique is what matters and you can build to it - of course work the various components of strength - change your pace so you have speed strength and slow strength - it is an issue with a lot of athletes I train - they have good slow strength but are lost when the pace needs to be changed - so adjust and moderate the pace and this type of variance will make you a better athlete and fool your neurology into making better adaptations ... and also, use a backhand grip as it will assist a lot with leverage. Adjust what you do as well - if you are training elite athletes you need to train energy systems correctly - and a lot of people are focused on the wrong ones - or not understanding the science/concepts and research and making their athletes slower by not paying attention to what really happens in their specific sport and not knowing things like grip strength power, rate of force production, watts of power required for specific tasks ETC ETC ...

Maybe I'll order a pile of sand and just pound it into next week.

Yes, the sand perfect - and get a big pile of smaller rocks - line em up side by side and run over one and down - I had two piles that were ten feet - its important to not only run up these - but, run down and control yourself - I would add in cones and we would use the whole pile to add in linear movement going both up and down - as athletes get older I focus a lot on wide feet, downhill running, eccentric drop jumps (followed by an explosive jump using kinetic energy). Email me and I will send you a sample of the movement drill we use - be careful not to force the movement as that is not great on the achilles - you want to move with the right posture - never shuffle - pick up the hip flexors hard - keep the elbows in the ribcage and fire hand and get the balance just right - don't muscle through this as it is a neurology activator and also trains the ankles as it is destabilization work.

Farmer's walk? A couple of buckets of water down to the horse's field. Or, twenty some pounds in each hand down to the mail box and back.

I never do conventional farmers walk - does not work. But, what works is take something in one hand - and for tennis nothing in the other hand and put your hand with nothing tennis prep movement right in front of your body like you would as you are tracking a ball coming to you before a big forehand - move that hand up and down hard for about three inches in front of you - hard on the eccentric plane and hard back up - create your own hard isometric. The one hand forces you to use the abs - and of course, flex the abs super hard.

Throw in 20 sets of jumping rope with fifty jumps with little pause in between each set. Walk the wolf...go as far as you like. Pick a trail, any trail. I admit to doing some silly ab work too. Basic stuff. I'm a farmer too! There is no healthier life style.

Start doing the Farmer Burns abdominal exercises - you are probably the most experienced coach on the board so you can figure it out without a lot of explanation from me ...

http://warriorfitness.org/isometric-breathing-lessons-from-martin-farmer-burns

Like a cat...hockeyscout. A mean, ornery cat.

Getting there slowly - 5'7 cats are optimal in tennis - 6'5 cats need some heavy sports science and a lot of smart work! You get it.

[don_budge]

You are a great coach hockeyscout. If I would have had you and my dear old tennis coach together, you may have put me on the map. It took me too long to develop the movement and quickness to compete with the players at the top tier. I started late...fourteen years old. My elementary school gym teacher was a guy who played in the Minnesota Twins farm system, Jim Snyder, and he told me at a very young age that I had exceptional game sense but needed to develop speed. Quickness.

I think you are right that average athletes can be moulded into more exceptional athletes and it doesn't have to be so complicated. The same goes true at whatever level of life or condition you are. One can improve their circumstances with effort, desire and dedication. I know I have the last couple of years.

I'm going to give this a try. Several tries. I'll try to own it. Just because you recommended it. Thanks man! If you can get that 6' 5" cat to move like a 5' 7" cat...that will be one dangerous feline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XjQoSQ5nhU&t=204s

[tenniscoach1]

This is my movement drill ... 3 drills ... 3 areas ... I built all the pads myself ... kids love these and if they mess up they only hurt their feelings ...

[tenniscoach1]

This is a few of my custom made machines and the MMA fighting ring ...

[arturohernandez]

Doesn't Thiem's trainer do something like that. They go running in the forrest and lift trunks. I agree that a lot of the work is just basic. My daughter even says that medicine ball throws help her more than anything else. I also have her chase our dog around the yard. He is super fast and so they both get tired and she gets some serious speed drill practice.

It's our version of catch the chicken that was in one of the Rocky movies.

As you said, everything is already there in the things that people did physically. We just seem to have forgotten that the old physical world exists and can help us become athletes.

[glacierguy]

Hi tenniscoach1, I just wondered if you thought skipping can play a part in a tennis training regime? I've been doing a bit lately, and it certainly tires me out pretty quickly. And would it be good or bad for knee strengthening?

[tenniscoach1]

Skipping is pretty complex task when done correctly - it's a hip flexor driven exercise how I use it. I do skipping with movement - forward, back, lateral - bit better than doing it standing in one place - to lessen impact and engage the feet do it on a MMA surface in bare feet. My fighters had a hard time getting used to it - but, it makes sense to them move and skip now. Pick the feet up through the hip flexor and learn proper drive phase mechanics. The idea is to get them more balanced, stop shuffling their feet incorrectly and to activate the hip flexor which will fix a lot of issues with knees etc. If you have bad foot striking you will have bad knees.

The issue with many of you is you have all been taught plyometrics the wrong way since you have been young and that catches up on you later in terms of your durability later very sorry to say.

For instance, let's look at the NBA. The guys like Jordan and Rodman - perfect! Why? Well in the old NBA you go in for a layup or dunk and Bill Laimbeer would fuck you up! You'd better be very in control and know how to land back in the day of Karl Malone. Today's guys - out of control - and landings that are insane to watch.

Watch the NHL combine - see athletes do the vertical - super - but, I want to know (a) how do they land and (b) can they land and jump again? Not many can. Overspeed eccentrics - you need it - gravity wins 100% of the time. You need to prep for that type of game force. If you don't - well, results will always be the same.

I was chatting today with a coach that has coached a lot of world number 1's in boxing/MMA etc - and he was laughing when I said "put these kids on a six/eight foot box at the combine - have them do old school Russian death jumps, land and see how high they can hit on the rebound jump - #1 and #2 and #3 with the vertical. The agents would be scared senseless and the kids would be scared senseless. He laughed - I laughed - and then we talked about how Dr. Verkhoshansky, the greatest sports coach in the history of sport would be turning in his grave if he saw no one applied properly the force/hit/shock methodology he developed which is a true plyometric BTW.

The stuff they do now with CrossFit (a scam), so called plyometrics and at the combines is show dog tricks and has no correlation to what happens on the field.

Here is a formula that is of interest (-:

[glacierguy]

Thanks! I shall persist with skipping and introduce some movement.

Was a bit puzzled by the code snippet which appears to show some sort of collision or tackle? where conservation of momentum is violated.

[tenniscoach1]

let me know how the 4 way mobility skipping works for you ... hate to complain but sure would love ❤️ it if john yandell could let us upload big files ... I could do quick videos showing you all my insane ideas and drills. One of my coaching peers said I am always so wrong but in time you find I am right. My fighters thought 4 way skipping was insane and sprint skipping was crazy until they did it for two weeks ... they hated shoveling snow/sand/rock until they realized 2 weeks later they had better punching rotations and their ab-wall was solid as a rock. and wait till you guys see this invention ... for now its called THE BIG DICK! I am not big on lifting weights - but, this teaches you never to cave the collarbone in, strengthens the high back and forces proper posture. Guys hate it ... I did 180 pound walk for 3 minutes with it today ... it exposes bad technique. I’m a big guy and at 47 I can still step in the ring and knock heads if I need to. MMA fighters and hockey players respect guys that lay down the lumber so to speak. I can go one round hard 1 time per week at my age and I do it once in a while to prove a point and let em know. I wish MMA was mainstream in my day - I would have loved competing in that sport. I think this new gadget work well for tennis players. Experimental phase!