2021 Barcelona Open Banc Sabadell...ATP 500...Barcelona, Spain

[stroke]

Nadal has slowed some, no doubt, but he still produced 36 winners to 29 errors on that long physical match vs Stef. His reign of terror continues. Still the toughest ask in sports, taking him down in a big match on clay. Onwards to Madrid and Rome for him. Oh brother.

[stotty]

Just the best when it comes to a scrap...the toughest player in our sport. How many matches has Rafa nicked like he did against Stefanos. He is a step slower than his blistering quickest but still the boss on the red stuff.

At least Stefanos made Rafa look beatable. Others will take heart from that.

Each clay court tournament gets bigger from hereon in.

[stroke]

Just the best when it comes to a scrap...the toughest player in our sport. How many matches has Rafa nicked like he did against Stefanos. He is a step slower than his blistering quickest but still the boss on the red stuff.

At least Stefanos made Rafa look beatable. Others will take heart from that.

Each clay court tournament gets bigger from hereon in.

And that forehand of his. Just a thing of beauty. Stef at one point in the match made a low knifing slice to the Nadal deuce side of the court. Nadal immediately pounced, attacking it with his forehand and it looked like a ping pong shot coming off his strings. No one but Nadal on that shot. Anything inside the baseline and he gets his forehand, forgetaboutit.

[stotty]

Yes I watched on Amazon and the camera panned a couple of times to show Nadal working inside the baseline at ground level. You can see how once he's in that position he generally has his opponent by the scruff the neck. His backhand isn't too shoddy either.

[arturohernandez]

Just the best when it comes to a scrap...the toughest player in our sport. How many matches has Rafa nicked like he did against Stefanos. He is a step slower than his blistering quickest but still the boss on the red stuff.

At least Stefanos made Rafa look beatable. Others will take heart from that.

Each clay court tournament gets bigger from hereon in.

Is Stefanos the heir apparent on clay? He just needed a little bit of luck or gumption to push him over the top.

[glacierguy]

Have only just finished watching final on replay. I know this sounds ridiculous really, given the effort expended, but I wish Tsitsipas had hustled a bit more (particularly in the first set) and 'let it all hang out'. He seemed a bit reserved, almost not wanting to go for a ball that he thought he might fail to get and therefore look a bit foolish. I'm probably wrong. But don_budge is not wrong about the Tsitsipas serve, amazing that it's as effective as it is, given the action. He surely missed an opportunity during lockdown to sort that out.

[arturohernandez]

Have only just finished watching final on replay. I know this sounds ridiculous really, given the effort expended, but I wish Tsitsipas had hustled a bit more (particularly in the first set) and 'let it all hang out'. He seemed a bit reserved, almost not wanting to go for a ball that he thought he might fail to get and therefore look a bit foolish. I'm probably wrong. But don_budge is not wrong about the Tsitsipas serve, amazing that it's as effective as it is, given the action. He surely missed an opportunity during lockdown to sort that out.

He has height and he is really great on clay. This is the second tournament in a row where he makes it to the final. He should take a break and save some energy for RG. Nadal can go three sets with the young guns. My question is whether he can manage five sets on clay against the young guns. Tsitsipas was so very close.

He needs to just keep just hanging in there. Just hanging around and seeing what happens. Nadal seemed to start kind of moon balling and making Stef hit high balls.

Nadal has played so many tough matches in which he just hangs around. It's about doing what is necessary to win.

One of the most interesting matches was the final with Murray in 2009 at IW. There were howling winds. Nadal just played the conditions better that day. In this point, you see how aware Nadal is that he cannot play the way he normally does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Gn0tZQ-jg

I almost imagine that when there was a day with 50 mph gusts, uncle Toni would take Nadal outdoors to practice everything. Just like he had him play on courts with holes and carry his own bags.

There was no catering to him. Tennis was going to always involve some suffering. When you suffer in practice, then match suffering is not out of the ordinary. And hitting a ball that is ugly but effective is not an exception. It is part of the game.

[don_budge]

The Tsitsipatti Kid...Evolution and Biomechanics (cont.)

When teaching or analysing a service motion one must have a fundamentally sound approach that will lead you to sources of inconsistency or otherwise faulty friction producing issues. Thank you jyandell for this much anticipated view of the Stefanos Tsitsipas motion.

When I analyse or teach a serve it all boils down to the same thing...setup position, initiation of the backswing, the track of the backswing, transition and finally forwards swing. Once you finally get to the forwards swing that is more or less preordained by the sequence of events that have preceded it. It is no different with Stefanos Tsitsipas. It doesn't change anything from my perspective that he is ranked such and such in the world. Even that he hits it a ton and manages to hold serve X% of the time doesn't change anything. There is always room for improvement in a motion, unless it has achieved perfect frictionless motion. As in a rollercoaster. As it stands now...the motion of the Greek has loads of potential. Loads of room for improvement. It is beyond me why the father, who is his "coach", has not seen this enormous source of potential. The French coach, Patrick what's his name, seems to be clueless in the same regard.

When looking at the setup position of Stefanos, the first thing we will discuss is his grip. There are those who take great exception to the grip as if it is a source of issues or a problem of some sort. Personally, I don't have any issues with the grip. It is a bit strong perhaps but it has nothing to do with more important issues in the motion. I suppose one could make an argument in certain circles that the stronger grip might effect his ability to spin the ball or in the way it unleashes into impact, but these are minor exceptions. There have been great servers whose grips are somewhat less than optimal.

The issues I have with the setup is the placement of the feet. They seem to be somewhat haphazardly askew. The rear foot is pointing in a direction that is totally unrelated to the direction or aim of his serve. Why is this a problem? Because the alignment of the feet are going to influence the "track" of the backswing. Too bad there isn't a rear view of the serve. Rear views are always preferred when it comes to analysing strokes or swings. You get a better sense of alignment and the "track" of the swing. Feet are simply shoulder width apart and the line that the toes of both feet make is the aim of the server. Most importantly the track of the backswing is on a line in front of the toes parallel to the line the toes create.

I don't care for the way that Stefanos holds the ball in his left hand against the strings of his racquet. I prefer the left hand holding the racquet up with the last two or three fingers at the throat of the racquet. In this way there is connection to the racquet with both hands and therefore both sides of the body at the very beginning of the motion. He seems to be somewhat disconnected from the very onset. From my point of view the real issues of Stefanos are rooted in his left hand's participation of the swing. The real issue is, as John points out and I have pointed out numerous times in discussing his motion, is the abbreviated tossing motion which plays real havoc with the entire motion. You see, by abbreviation of the tossing motion you have to do something with the other side of the equation to keep it balanced and the other side of the equation in the service motion just happens to be the backswing. Stefanos makes two rather clumsy attempts to get both sides working together by abbreviation of his backswing in a most awkward movement and by tossing the ball too high to give himself time to complete his entire swing. By creating a shorten tossing motion he has robbed himself of some valuable time to make his entire swing.

The backswing really doesn't make any sense to me at all. With the faulty setup and the time killing tossing motion he doesn't even give himself a chance to make the correct backswing which is a free falling motion of the racquet head from setup position onto the track I defined above. There isn't any point in discussing the rest of his swing until he makes the adjustments in his setup and his toss. I don't have any issues at all with the dispersion of his tosses. In fact, I think it is a very good idea to learn to toss the ball in different spots to promote spin and placement. It also can be used a an excellent form of deception to the opponent. For instance, the serve in the deuce court might toss the ball far to his right to give the opponent the sense of impending wide slicing serve but the server can with training learn to hit the flat ball up the T from this position. I also think it a good idea to move the position around on the baseline to promote angles...and deception. These fundamental ideas are very doable if the server possesses a perfect, frictionless motion. Such a motion opens up an entire world of possibilities for the server tactics and permutations and combinations.

The "fix" for Tsitsipas is to get him aligned properly and to get him toss the ball with a full range of motion with the left hand. Then you go to work on a more full range of motion with the back swing which transitions with the seamless glide into the forwards swing. Obviously as it stands, Stefanos gets by quite well with this rather herky jerky motion. Even the way he finishes his swing in the video suggests that he way off balance and fights to maintain his balance in his follow through. The million dollar question is...how good could it possibly be? Taking into account his physique and the beautiful way in which he hits his backhand...he has tons of potential. I would love to see this motion in the stroke archives where the frame by frame option is available.

The long and the short of it was...the faulty and inadequate service motion cost Stefanos Tsitsipas this tournament. The statistics might even tell you that he served "better" than Nadal did. This of no consequence. A chain in only as strong as its weakest link. An imperfect motion is inclined to breakdown...eventually. Not always. A fine young athlete such as "The Tsitsipatti Kid" can pull it off. Particularly is all of the other parts are firing on all eight. Put there is always something that throws a monkey wrench in the works. The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray. Pressure can cause a imperfect service motion to become tentative just when you need it most. Serving for the set. Serving to stay in the match. It opens the door for possibilities. Some of them not good. Some of them disastrous.

In this case it was a disaster. Tsitsipas had this match in his grasp. He had to have a flawless serving day. He didn't and consequently he did not get the horse in the barn. His motion might cost him umpteen major titles in the future. Grand Slam titles where you have to serve over the course of bests of five sets. Roger Federer is "The Living Proof". How many times have we watched him in matches going along seamlessly serving games at love and fifteen. Just in cruise control. Then when he gets to the finish line and serves for the set...it is the same thing. One, two, three, four...goodnight. He has his act together on his serve...because his motion is "perfect". No friction. Well oiled. Well greased. Bing, bang, bye. How often do you see that from Stefanos. Not very. There is not good reason for him not to either. I could teach him that.

I like your phrase so much I plan to steal it "put a spanner in the biomechanical works of idealism"

Oh my goodness! I can possibly understand this sort of attitude with beginners or club players. I, myself, never gave up on anyone. Idealism? Give me a break. It's my job. Well done Rafael Nadal. A veteran's veteran. He exploited his opponent. It wasn't the first time in the tournament Stefanos' serve looked vulnerable. He has a lot to back it up with. He can disguise the weakness against weaker opponents. But if you want to climb to the top of the food chain...you had better have all of the links in your chain in the best of all possible shape. Otherwise if it is not perfect, a superior opponent is going to exploit it. It will be you going home wishing your Mama never had you. Shame on the Stefanos Tsitsipas team. Shame on the father for not recognising his son's cry for help.

That might be a little harsh. But it is a tough circuit on the pro tour. You have got to be like that.

[stroke]

Copy top of food chain. The toughest top of the food chain in sports to reach, Nadal on clay, and he has been there for 16 years.

[arturohernandez]

The Tsitsipatti Kid...Evolution and Biomechanics (cont.)




The long and the short of it was...the faulty and inadequate service motion cost Stefanos Tsitsipas this tournament. The statistics might even tell you that he served "better" than Nadal did. This of no consequence. A chain in only as strong as its weakest link. An imperfect motion is inclined to breakdown...eventually. Not always. A fine young athlete such as "The Tsitsipatti Kid" can pull it off. Particularly is all of the other parts are firing on all eight. Put there is always something that throws a monkey wrench in the works. The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray. Pressure can cause a imperfect service motion to become tentative just when you need it most. Serving for the set. Serving to stay in the match. It opens the door for possibilities. Some of them not good. Some of them disastrous.

In this case it was a disaster. Tsitsipas had this match in his grasp. He had to have a flawless serving day. He didn't and consequently he did not get the horse in the barn. His motion might cost him umpteen major titles in the future. Grand Slam titles where you have to serve over the course of bests of five sets. Roger Federer is "The Living Proof". How many times have we watched him in matches going along seamlessly serving games at love and fifteen. Just in cruise control. Then when he gets to the finish line and serves for the set...it is the same thing. One, two, three, four...goodnight. He has his act together on his serve...because his motion is "perfect". No friction. Well oiled. Well greased. Bing, bang, bye. How often do you see that from Stefanos. Not very. There is not good reason for him not to either. I could teach him that.



Oh my goodness! I can possibly understand this sort of attitude with beginners or club players. I, myself, never gave up on anyone. Idealism? Give me a break. It's my job. Well done Rafael Nadal. A veteran's veteran. He exploited his opponent. It wasn't the first time in the tournament Stefanos' serve looked vulnerable. He has a lot to back it up with. He can disguise the weakness against weaker opponents. But if you want to climb to the top of the food chain...you had better have all of the links in your chain in the best of all possible shape. Otherwise if it is not perfect, a superior opponent is going to exploit it. It will be you going home wishing your Mama never had you. Shame on the Stefanos Tsitsipas team. Shame on the father for not recognising his son's cry for help.

That might be a little harsh. But it is a tough circuit on the pro tour. You have got to be like that.

The other interesting thing is that the very best find ways to keep getting better. Djokovic improved his serve. Nadal has worked on his serve even switching to mixing his lefty slice up more than before. I am sure Federer works on his serve. It is automatic but there is no way to maintain that good of a serve without practice.

The problem is that the serve that gets you to the top 10 doesn't always get you to major champion. I see very talented players who have great games. Because the serve is adequate, no one bothers to fix it, and the player themselves are not driven to make it better. At some point, it begins to hold them back. Their competition uses the serve to get out of neutral and eventually starts to apply pressure with their returns.

I am pretty sure that he can win something with his current serve. Becker had a few idiosyncrasies. So did Edberg. They did manage to win. The main problem is the second serve. Rublev has this issue too. With all the money and coaching, we would think they would simply go to a biomechanics lab.

Then again, John, told Annacone about the flaw in Samrpas's backhand. Annacone simply told John it did not matter. His confidence was more important than biomechanics. We will see if the same rule applies to Tsitispas. Can confidence overcome faulty technique? That is the question.

don_budge says no. I am still on the fence. Only time will tell...

[don_budge]

The other interesting thing is that the very best find ways to keep getting better. Djokovic improved his serve. Nadal has worked on his serve even switching to mixing his lefty slice up more than before. I am sure Federer works on his serve. It is automatic but there is no way to maintain that good of a serve without practice.

The problem is that the serve that gets you to the top 10 doesn't always get you to major champion. I see very talented players who have great games. Because the serve is adequate, no one bothers to fix it, and the player themselves are not driven to make it better. At some point, it begins to hold them back. Their competition uses the serve to get out of neutral and eventually starts to apply pressure with their returns.

I am pretty sure that he can win something with his current serve. Becker had a few idiosyncrasies. So did Edberg. They did manage to win. The main problem is the second serve. Rublev has this issue too. With all the money and coaching, we would think they would simply go to a biomechanics lab.

Then again, John, told Annacone about the flaw in Samrpas's backhand. Annacone simply told John it did not matter. His confidence was more important than biomechanics. We will see if the same rule applies to Tsitispas. Can confidence overcome faulty technique? That is the question.

don_budge says no. I am still on the fence. Only time will tell...

The Tsitsipatti Kid...Evolution and Biomechanics

The serve is problematic in a case like this. Some say it is functional. How did one poster put it..."put a spanner in the biomechanical works of idealism". That is as dumb as it gets. For a guy on the cusp of greatness to rationalise that such a motion is good enough at this level is criminal. Particularly if you do this for a living. In the match against Jannik Sinner yesterday I was watching Stefanos on his service game. He was holding serve. He couldn't be faulted on that. But is that enough on this level? In my book he wasn't dominating that part of the game as he should. With all of his ability. With that glorious backhand. All of the other attributes. I was thinking of Roger Federer and what a great serve he has. All dependent on his motion, of course. I was thinking about how good Roger is at serving out matches. Year in...year out. I was thinking how many times Roger gets in a groove where he is winning his service game in the short span of a minute or so. How many love game he serves. How many times he wins at 15. You see...that is the kind of serving "The Tsitsipatti Kid" is capable of. That is the equivalent of three rungs up the ladder. The food chain. To not understand that is...I want to say criminal. But knowing human nature. How small minds work. Without the ability to dream. To aspire. To dream the impossible dream. Well...you get the picture. Nothing new under the sun.

I could fix it. Little old me. don_quixote. A voice in the wilderness. If only Stefanos had Roger's service motion to take into the match today. This would be all but preordained. As it is, he has at least a fifty/fifty chance. He might hammer Señor Nadal into next week. Like Aslan Karatsev did Novak Djokovic did yesterday. But it won't be because of a perfect service motion. Which is well within his grasp. Why hasn't someone planted that seed in his head?

Tsitsy was up a break in the first. He was serving to stay in the match in the third. He managed to lose serve in both cases. Clearly the motion is not up to the task. Cue the Roger explanation.

[stroke]

Tsitsy was up a break in the first. He was serving to stay in the match in the third. He managed to lose serve in both cases. Clearly the motion is not up to the task. Cue the Roger explanation.

Bottom line to me,, he made 2 less winners and 12 more errors. To beat Nadal on clay, that is not a recipe for a big win.

[stotty]

Is Stefanos the heir apparent on clay? He just needed a little bit of luck or gumption to push him over the top.

I don't think he is. He is just one of many players who will likely win the FO once Rafa has either gotten too old or departed from tennis.

[stroke]

I don't think he is. He is just one of many players who will likely win the FO once Rafa has either gotten too old or departed from tennis.

Yes, I think after Rafa we have seen our last 16+ year reign on clay.

[don_budge]

I was wondering where Dominic Thiem has been.