The Arc of the Toss

[johnyandell]

Yep agreed on Nick. I still don't like it! Nick like most of the other low toss guys is a freak. Notsaying super high is better but a drop of around a foot foot and a half works best for most.

[stroke]

Kyrgios, who to me has the best serve in tennis(along with Raonic), except for the 3 giants, has a toss that he hits pretty close to the apex of the toss. Casper Rudd, who's serve has improved, also has lowered his toss and also seems to hit it a pretty much the toss apex.

[johnyandell]

Not the model--also very little or no turn... It amazes me how many people stay fascinated by the low toss model when so few pros do it--and virtually no lower level players can...the ghost of Vic Braden...

[stotty]

So here is his serve:
https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...lgopolov-serve

Very fast arm and early knee bend.

[johnyandell]

So here is his serve:
https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...lgopolov-serve

[jimlosaltos]

I always thought Paolo Cane had an intriguing serve. He hit the ball at the apex but had great rotation and a full wind up:

Go to 6:07 on the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UM7Xk6pCg

Good one ! Thanks for sharing.

More contemporary example is Alexandr Dolgopolov, who at times comes about as close to hitting the ball right at the apex as most anyone:

https://youtu.be/WlwvDvy-8LA

Before his Gilbert's Syndrome and knee surgeries caught up with him, he had an excellent serve. Only sub-six-footer in the top 10 in aces for a stretch.

I tried to find a YT video of a drill The Dog did for his snap serve. Instead of tossing the ball, he would bounce it off the court with his racket, then hit serve as the ball went up.
I can't even. I called him "The Rubberband Man" because he was just a ball of fast twitch muscles.

Today, he's returned to Ukraine to serve in the army. After a fan wearing a Ukrainian flag was tossed out of Cincinatti (yesterday?) he asked people to wear shirts of the flag colors and "dared" the WTA to kick them out.

[stotty]

I always thought Paolo Cane had an intriguing serve. He hit the ball at the apex but had great rotation and a full wind up:

Go to 6:07 on the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UM7Xk6pCg

[jimlosaltos]

Very helpful.

Tangential question. This reminded me years ago of Darren Cahill commenting on a player that had a "quick serve", that is a short toss with abbreviated motion. Sorry, can't recall off-hand who it was. I don't believe he was referring to a Rosco Tanner/ Kevin Curren serve. I'm not sure.

But the point that intrigued me was that Cahill mentioned how Andre Agassi, whom he coached, would occasionally throw in such a "quick serve"

Do any current ATP or WTA pros use that kind of variation? I can't think of any off hand.

[jthb1021]

Great article with so much great information! Thank you for putting this series together!

[doctorhl]

Off topic, but I wanted to credit you doctorhl, for your early comments on Jannik Sinner's serve. I admit I didn't see the improvement then but at Wimbledon and in beating Alcaraz twice in a row, one key was his improved serve. Props.

You made my day!!

[jimlosaltos]

Thanks John. The article helped clear up the path of the ball toss in relation to body position/court stance for me.

Off topic, but I wanted to credit you doctorhl, for your early comments on Jannik Sinner's serve. I admit I didn't see the improvement then but at Wimbledon and in beating Alcaraz twice in a row, one key was his improved serve. Props.

[johnyandell]

Tommy,
I haven't studied Nick's toss but in general, the pinpoint stance guys turn away less from the ball. This usually means the toss moves less from right to left, but the two dimensions of the contact point I mention in the series stay similar.

[tommyhorton]

Hi John, great article on the arc of the toss. I was just admiring Nick Kyrgios serve. How do you think the pinpoint stance effects the toss? Do they arc the toss more in the court and less left to right than the players with platform stance?

[johnyandell]

I thought it might...

[doctorhl]

Thanks John. The article helped clear up the path of the ball toss in relation to body position/court stance for me.