The Arc of the Toss

[johnyandell]

Agreed also.

[stroke]

Thanks for this.

What I like about Roger's toss - and Novak's for that matter - is their toss is no higher or lower than it needs to be. Both have tosses that fit perfectly into their motions. Essentially, to me, this is what the toss is all about, the correct toss for the motion.

Players with freakish live arms tend to be beasts all of their own and perhaps not quite subject to the same rules as everyone else.

I certainly agree with that. The freaks as you say, well it is like Julius palming the ball off the dribble and doing a backhand type slam, freakish but cannot be taught.

[stotty]

From today's, NYC article re: the Toss. Joe Ward and his team did a nice job.

Thanks for this.

What I like about Roger's toss - and Novak's for that matter - is their toss is no higher or lower than it needs to be. Both have tosses that fit perfectly into their motions. Essentially, to me, this is what the toss is all about, the correct toss for the motion.

Players with freakish live arms tend to be beasts all of their own and perhaps not quite subject to the same rules as everyone else.

[giancarlo]

From today's, NYC article re: the Toss. Joe Ward and his team did a nice job.

[stroke]

Earlier this year (at Miami, perhaps?) Naomi Osaka asked Nick for help on her serve. He advised her to slide her back foot into the pinpoint rather than step.

Then again, Nick already gets blamed (deservedly) for enough, perhaps I shouldn't add on blaming him for Naomi's mediocre (for her) serving on her latest return to the tour <g>.

If it were that easy, all would just serve like Nick. IMO, Nick's serve would be just as good if he just put his feet together a la Roddick and served. Nick has a super live arm, Naomi does not.

[jimlosaltos]

Stotty couldn't agree more. But how many idiots out there will try to copy Nick?

Earlier this year (at Miami, perhaps?) Naomi Osaka asked Nick for help on her serve. He advised her to slide her back foot into the pinpoint rather than step.

Then again, Nick already gets blamed (deservedly) for enough, perhaps I shouldn't add on blaming him for Naomi's mediocre (for her) serving on her latest return to the tour <g>.

[johnyandell]

Stotty couldn't agree more. But how many idiots out there will try to copy Nick?

[stotty]

I don't think he did change it from what I remember. He to me always had that super quick fast twitch motion. I think maybe the still shot makes it seem like he was getting higher. He always seemed to me have real leg explosion, great ups, on his serve.

You're right. No real detectable change in motion. Incredibly explosive serve and he really drives up and takes off...always did in my memory. You'd never teach that kind of 'low ball toss' technique unless it's natural to a kid from the get-go.

Most pro's on the tour tend to have higher ball tosses. Roger's and Novak's seem about right to me.

[stroke]

I don't think he did change it from what I remember. He to me always had that super quick fast twitch motion. I think maybe the still shot makes it seem like he was getting higher. He always seemed to me have real leg explosion, great ups, on his serve.

[jimlosaltos]

So I was just reading over all the comments on the Dog serve on this old thread. It was very interesting. Jimlosaltos, you have particularly good thoughts on the effectiveness statistically of his serve. No doubt, he was one of the best sub 6' servers out there.

I was thinking about his serve and John's great videos, where the Dog hits the ball seemingly right out of his hand. Then I remembered watching his live play Fed at Indian Wells in 2014. Pushed Fed hard one of the late rounds. Came down to some spectacular gets by Fed running right along the back wall -- scattering linemen in his path like ducks -- to get back two of Alexandr's overheads in the swirling wind.

But ... the point was this photo from 2014. Must have changed his serve or varies it because he's got some serious air time here. Toss must have been sky high If so, that's a big change. Look at the arm rotation on presumably a kick serve. Regardless, fun player to watch.

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[stroke]

Very fast arm and early knee bend.

So I was just reading over all the comments on the Dog serve on this old thread. It was very interesting. Jimlosaltos, you have particularly good thoughts on the effectiveness statistically of his serve. No doubt, he was one of the best sub 6' servers out there.

[jimlosaltos]

So here is his serve:
https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...lgopolov-serve

Oh, excellent! Thank you.

Third one in particular with what I believe is a wide slice is great.

Just a ball of fast-twitch muscle.

I recall Dolgopolov at his peak winning D.C. vs was it Tommy Haas? He'd hit 130 up the T, Tommy moved back and Dolgopolov hit wicked, short, wide slice. Great skill.

Career cut all too short by Gilbert's Syndrome and knees, but the flame burned brightly for a while.

Thanks/

[stroke]

He did show some positive signs saying what he did about Novak after his Wimbledon loss. Then there is the horrible behavior in the Tsitsipas match, and the way he berates/bullies the umpires. And the way he treats his players box. A lot to dislike.

[johnyandell]

Agreed! Although he did show some signs of humanity in his post final Wimby press conference. Who knows if he stays off the booze and drugs...

[stroke]

I don't like Nick either, just to be clear.