Jack Kramer explains various Grips...

[10splayer]

We started some adult training classes at out little club here in Sweden...a sparsely populated country in the heart of Scandinavia. One of the things that I passionately love about this place is that there aren't many people.

But the adults that are taking the classes are probably 85% women which is just fine with me...as you can well imagine. So they have been taking their classes about once or twice a week for the past six months or so. They surprise me at how quickly they catch on and how enthusiastic they are. Many of their children are in our junior program. Maybe 85% have children in the program. It's great because it gives me a chance to talk to them about their children.

I have one rule that is never broken in my training. No parents allowed on the court. It's a great rule and not one parent has attempted to breach it. I have beautiful relationships with the parents as well. They are encouraged to watch from the observation post. The kids are on their own...with me as their supervisor. No one questions my authority or methods. There are good reasons why they don't...you can imagine.

The adults have reached a point in their training where it is time to learn how to serve...so I emphasize the overhead smash and the serve together. I throw in some additional emphasis on the volley at this point. It's all connected...you know. Connecting dots. I find myself living to this beat and rhythm...connecting the three little dots. It works for me. I am not certain if it would work for others. You are welcome to try it. My mentor at this method was none other than Ferdinand Celine. He has served me in good stead.

Where was I? Oh yes...the serve and the overhead. I have a little joke that I play on them...I ask why is it called an overhead? Get it? Because you hit the ball when it is over your head. Funny? How do you like me so far? But anyways...after they collect themselves and stop looking at each other quizzedly...I spring the punch line on them.

The odd thing about the overhead and the serve...they are both swung at from the forehand side of the body but you use the backhand grip on the racquet. Most find it more desirable initially to use the forehand grip...but the wrist will not perform the duties and responsibilities that it was designed to when swing at balls over your head if you use the forehand grip. Yet nearly everyone says that it feels strange at first. I can't remember how I felt when I first used the backhand grip...gee that was back in the days of Arthur...when I was young. Just a young wizard then. Not so wizened. When I set them up in the backhand grip every single one of them get the look on their face as if they are confused. It feels funny they say to a man...or rather to a woman.

There is this one particularly beautiful woman who has a forehand grip on her serve and she really can belt it. She's a great athletic specimen...not necessarily Olympic or anything but if she got you in some kind of bear hug...you might be fighting for your next breath. Oh well...what a way to go. But she is going to change her grip. I leave it up to her...but I ask her...what do you want to do? Continue serving 30% or less than on your first serves or will you switch your grip so that you can spin the ball and swing harder while upping your first serve percentage to 65% or better? It's a rhetorical question. She looks at me and realizes that I have her trapped and she has no choice...if she wants to improve. Too bad that she wasn't originally taught the backhand grip...now she is going to have to backtrack.

Oh well...I must have a little Machiavelli in me. A Little Prince. The ends justify the means. I sort of get a deeper appreciation of forcing people to do things that they don't necessarily feel comfortable with but they have no choice. Afterall...it's checkmate. I never lose...on paper. Lady Mercy won't be home tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

And i actually, don't doubt one word you say here. Further I'd send my kid to you for a serve lesson if this is how you roll....if i didn't already know how to teach it.

And yes, Bottle, there is a certain degree of leeway, variations, or range of
acceptablility. No doubt about it.

Look, i don't even know how this all started, but i certainly don't care how any particular father chooses to teach his daughter, but there are members here who are reading this stuff. Grips are very, very imporatant!!!!!

Im out.

[hockeyscout]

I will tell you a sport. Riding a bus in Russia or Ukraine. We call them mashutka's.

Their are very old woman who walk up and down the isles collecting money. Somehow they manage to stay balanced, give change and move fluently while some suicidal driver is going 90 down a 40 road with potholes, half drunk out of his mind, smoking a cigarette, checking out the beautiful woman walking around in short skirts and leopard skin, rich dudes in BMW's wearing no seat-belts and going 110 in city limits, and talking loudly on his cell phone in a 1960's cold war bus with no shocks, with the windows all closed (open windows made you mother Russia I hear, the wind is bad for you). In fact, everyone here talks with a cell phone, drives fast and wears no seat belt. When I first came here I thought the drivers were trying to freak me out by driving on sidewalks and almost killing pedestrians and fellow motorists, however, in time I came to realize it was normal.

I asked one lady, how do you do it, she said, "I know how to grip properly, and have done this job for ten hours a day for thirty years, and nothing this driver does disturbs my balance anymore."

It's always funny when a foreigner comes on the bus cause they just get thrown around like drunk rag dolls.

The guys to me who are outstanding are the men on the fishing boats in the Atlantic etc. You'd better understand how, and when to move, and grip!

So, grips can take on many forms!

[hockeyscout]

:Look, i don't even know how this all started, but i certainly don't care how any particular father chooses to teach his daughter, but there are members here who are reading this stuff. Grips are very, very imporatant!!!!!

Yah, me to, I don't care how any father teachers his son or daughter either. Hell, I wouldn't listen to anything Mr or Mrs Connors, Agassi, Sharapova, William, Everett, Navratilova, Dimitrov, Capriati, Nadal, Graf, Seles or Henin, or old man Roy Jones Junior, Mayweather, Joe Bryant and hundred's of others in multiple sports have to say! Maybe thousands? Move on I say. Nothing to learn here. : confused:

And, where did I say grips are not important? Never said it. I will repeat again, they are important, and how they are imported into a players game is even more important.

Love it when words are put in my mouth.

[don_budge]

Jack Kramer explains various Grips...what does it mean?

Listen to Jack Kramer give a rather nice explanation on tennis grips. He reminds me a bit of Ben Hogan in his delivery. Jack was strongly revered back some years ago. A very powerful and influential character in the history of tennis. I wonder what he would have thought about the fundamental changes that the game has made since the years of his influence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_6beu6nW0k

So...let's try it again. hockeyscout...below I quote you and it is my hope that you will live up to your word and not interrupt me now. I started this thread and I believe you owe me the courtesy of listening...or not. I don't care which. Courtesy is such an old fashioned word. You have stated at length how you feel about things here and the way that we are conducting business on the forum.

I am politely asking that you stay out of it now as you said you would...perhaps your daughter if she is reading this will learn something at the great risk of you not being the be all and end all...when it comes to the subject of tennis.

This will be my last word on this subject (thread).

Here is what Jack Kramer said in the youtube video about grips. Read it carefully. What he says is actually quite enlightening...particularly if you are interested in connecting the dots. The three little dots. Ferdinand Celine style. Thank you for your courtesy and patience...everyone.

Jack Kramer speaks...and I listen over and over as I transcribe word for word. A good exercise for any coach. Every word worthy of consideration. Listening is an art. The transcript below:

You know there are a lot of important things that you have to have in order to be a good tennis player. But one of the most important in my opinion is to have a good grip. The reason that I say that is through the years I have seen all of the good players that have good sound strokes come up with a good grip as well.

Number one...we go to the Western grip. The Western grip because back in the old days of tennis the balls used to bounce very, very high...particularly on the concrete courts out in California. So people developed this kind of a grip...to handle high balls. The hand was directly under the handle of the racquet. It is good for high balls but if you move to a situation where you have to hit low balls as well...really this grip doesn’t work. You also have a problem with the backhand.

Moving around over to the more conventional way to hold the racquet and a lot of good players do it and not necessarily all of them...we call it the “shake hands grip” or hitting the ball with the palm of your hand. This is the Eastern grip...you simply slide you hand down to where it’s comfortable on the handle. The key thing to remember is the top of the handle has two bevels. The bevel on the right side forms the “V” between the index and the thumb finger. This is a very fine grip and it is very, very good for low balls or high balls...you can do anything with that particular grip.

Moving on top a little further we come to the Continental grip. The Continental grip was developed by the English because their game was predominately played on grass and they found that when hitting low balls, because on grass they are skiddey and low, that a little bit of a flick of the wrist using this kind of a grip was very, very successful for them. The one good thing about the continental grip is it’s identified by the “V” switching from the Eastern side on the top right half of the handle to the left bevel. The “V” is formed by the thumb and the fore finger over here.

I will say one great thing about the continental grip is that it is practically the same grip that you use for a backhand. So this is the grip if you are going to be a single grip player, using the same grip for the backhand and the forehand you should use this kind of a grip. It’s a good one.

So far we have been talking about the various grips for the forehand but there is a change necessary for you to produce a good backhand...unless however you are that continental grip player where the forehand and the backhand can practically be the same grip. The reason it is necessary from the eastern forehand and the western forehand is to get some help...mainly from your thumb.

I am going to demonstrate something that will show you what I mean. If you are in a Eastern forehand grip which is like this and you try to hit the backhand you would see that there is very, very little help...no thrust at all...because the wrist is broken, it’s limp. I would like to suggest something if you turn this over you turn it into a judo cut. So simply turn that knuckle of the forefinger away from this side of the racquet to this side which forms the “V”, immediately you get some extra help from the thumb on the backside.

Now you don’t have to use the thumb the way that I am demonstrating here...because you can get help this way or you can have it overlapped. A lot of players do that. A lot of good players are a little further around here. They tend to sort of push the ball. But somewhere in between there try to get some help from that thumb...it’s very valuable for your backhand.

Now through the years...my playing career I found out that the eastern grip where I was hitting the ball with the forehand like this and the backhand over here. It worked great for me and I am not saying that you should use it. I am saying that get out there and try...improvise. Somewhere in between this Western and this Continental and the Eastern in between there is a grip for you.

My thoughts to follow...

[hockeyscout]

My last reply for good ...

I am politely asking that you stay out of it now as you said you would...perhaps your daughter if she is reading this will learn something at the great risk of you not being the be all and end all...when it comes to the subject of tennis.

don_budge, I respectfully ask you to read what will be my final post on this site.

I'm just not going to bother to post here anymore as a lot of words are being put in my mouth and I'm been misinterpreted.

I think I'd create way to much controversy when I begin to discuss bio-mechanics, serves, ground-strokes, statistics, fitness, techniques, exercises, equipment.

I'd permanently blow up this forum.

This wouldn't be fair to the users.

I have got what I have needed from this forum. I've got a few guys here here who participate in my team's conversations via skype, or PM, and that's what I really needed here in the first place.

Interestingly enough, I've connected with some surprisingly great people here who NEVER post, which is really a shame as I've so enjoyed our conversations, and Skype group calls.

I do want to clear up a few things in my final post:

First off, we watched the video the day you posted it. Thanks. And, I put it through Digital Dragon Naturally Speaking, and had it dictated by a super computer I set up for this type of thing to maximize error configuration issues I had with software recognition. We didn't have that one charted, but we do now, and right now we have a cataloged of about 2000 of these learning aids.

Let me tell you how my team, and people around me operate. With my team everyone questions everything non-stop. We have dialogue, fight, bicker, push, prod, argue, take nothing at face value, challenge, laugh, mock, believe nothing and reinvent the wheel. Over pizza, all of us, with usually a couple of people linked in through Skype. My young one takes it all in, and that's kind of the idea, and we encourage her to run with it.

Interestingly enough we'll say things that are completely stupid to see if she catches on, and fights us verbally. It's kind of funny seeing a eight year shake her head and make her case.

We practice with loud music, laugh, talk a lot, challenge each-other, bring in other players all the time to train with us (old and young), ALWAYS allow the parents, spouses, dogs and cats on the court (and value, respect, listen and discuss their feedback), bring in the basketball - soccer - volleyball players to tell us what they see and generally act like a bunch of hockey players.

We never take it personal, and we're willing to look like fools, and fall flat on our faces in the process. Some of the stuff we come up with like dressing our tennis buddy Eugene in a clowns costume is funny, and stupid as hell.

We make progress, and that's important.

However, I can't say I've ever heard anyone in our conversation group accuse someone (anyone) of being "the be all and end all when it comes to tennis", "call in a moderator", refer to someone as a "tennis parent" and preaching about "respect, keeping your word, listening and courtesy."

And, if someone did say that, we'd all laugh about it because clearly someone is taking it to personal or you've got a guys goat.

(part two coming) ...

[hockeyscout]

I pick my people carefully, and after two decades of coaching I know what I like, who I want to keep close, who I want far away and who's not in coaching for the right reason's and who's capable of teaching under our knowledge navigation approach, which is centered on the athlete.

I got a hitting partner with a dad from hell. I knew this, and no coach wants to work with this kid because of the dad. His father still comes to the court and offers advice, and the kid's 21. This young kid was worried I'd kill his old man for putting his two cents in like the father of Dolgopolov dad (he's a coach) once did on the practice courts with the national team. I'm BIG, and hail from the north pole, so this young man was a bit worried.

The old man shows up one day, and he's standing on the sidelines giving advice to his kid who is 21, who is hitting with a eight year old. LOL. I said to him, "What the hell are you doing standing over their, come here, you're 21 year old son can't hear you from over their! I welcomed him on the court, asked him to observe, tell us what he saw and join in on the dialogue.

The wife really liked the guy (good sign, she's a superb coach in her own right), and chatted him up for a long time about running, and you know what we learned a lot from a "tennis dad" who developed a top 1500 player in the world. I invited him to come anytime, and he did, and he actually started teaching me about Russian sweat lodges, and recovery tactics.

I told this man's son his dad did a good job developing his game, papa's was always welcome, I valued everyone's ideas and he's lucky to have a parent like his father who's interested. Interestingly enough the dad said to his son, I like hockey coaches, proud he picked you to work with him, and I'm so happy about this situation.

We even asked the dad to tell us where he went wrong, and what we could do as a team to avoid any errors. His answer I won't share, however, it is so enlightening to get opinions from parents who've developed players, and navigated through the coaching system and politics.

I had another dad come out, knows nothing about tennis, however, he's worth 200 million, and owns malls, and he sure taught us a lot about how our habits, concentration and how an tennis lacks what he calls an organizational planning model.

A third dad is a chess player. That guy's opened up to us in a big way, and he only did because we weren't condescending to him, welcomed him with open arms and valued what he could offer to young aspiring tennis players. And man, chess players know things about the mental game, memorization and intense training I never previously fathomed.

I guess the difference between our tennis program and others is very real. I find athletic training approaches in tennis rather interesting. Running a kid 17 miles in 2 days, and is treated the way Taylor Townsend getting her funding revoked.

See this link:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324906304579038682358575194

I do love what what Joe Bryant did with his son.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/05/10/kobe.bryant.ballard/

Joe Bryant is the wave of the future.

It's to bad my young one didn't play hockey, cause I would be just like papa Joe and having the time of my life playing shinny on the rink all day!

So, that's it.

This is a tennis forum.

My program ain't tennis.

I've learned a lot everyone here, so thanks.

Thanks guys, and to the men I have been chatting with on private message, keep in touch, you've advanced the mentor-ship abilities of my wife and I big time, and helped us immensely. Hopefully a few of your get a chance to visit us soon when things get back to normal here, or we move.

One last observation, where in the heck are all the woman coaches? Haven't met one here yet. If your a woman coach, stalking the forum, please, chat my wife up if you get a chance!

[bottle]

No, no-- don't go away!

[hockeyscout]

No, no-- don't go away!

I'm a parent running rampant.

I'll read with interest in stalker mode, use these posts in our meetings as debate points.

I'll say again, it's amazing all the great users of this site who only read, and never bother to post here. I'm gonna join that side. So, like I said earlier, I've found some hidden coaching stars on this site, and now I'll just transfer it over to Skype, private message and email with them so I do not disrupt this forum.

PS: I've never talked about the strokes, however, when, and if I did, I think it'd start a major flaming war. I think I'd get crucified.

[don_budge]

Jack Kramer explains various Grips...The Implications

Listen to Jack Kramer give a rather nice explanation on tennis grips. He reminds me a bit of Ben Hogan in his delivery. Jack was strongly revered back some years ago. A very powerful and influential character in the history of tennis. I wonder what he would have thought about the fundamental changes that the game has made since the years of his influence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_6beu6nW0k

Being a student of the game of tennis nothing said by a man of Jack Kramer's stature can be ignored or trivialized. It's an old game...many have been here before us and they are deserving of our respect. There is an antiquated idea out there someplace and it has a name. It was called tennis etiquette. Tennis etiquette encapsulated all that was essential that was the spirit of tennis and a couple of the tenets were...never seek unfair advantage over your opponent and show respect to others, particularly those that represent the game and its history. Stotty made some excellent points by the way in the post about Jack Kramer's standing in the game. This is important.

When Jack Kramer is discussing the Western grip he mentions that "back in the old days of tennis the balls used to bounce very, very high...particularly on the concrete courts out in California. So people developed this kind of a grip...to handle high balls. The hand was directly under the handle of the racquet. It is good for high balls but if you move to a situation where you have to hit low balls as well...really this grip doesn’t work. You also have a problem with the backhand".

This is a real mouthful and a very, very interesting statement. I noticed when I was transcribing that he used very, very a number of times...to emphasize what he felt was important. The modern game of tennis has been engineered with court surfaces that make the ball bounce high so the stronger gripped forehand to the Western side of Eastern has taken over the game. This is not evolution by the way...and it is important to note that it is not. This is man made engineering.

So you ask...why is that important? Why have I for months been constantly referring to the change of court speed looming in the future? Well...I feel that this little video from the great Jack Kramer gives us some valuable evidence about what is going to happen along with some comments from Mats Wilander and a conversation that I had with him at the Kings of Tennis symposium in Stockholm, Sweden last week. Along with the rather new concept of training children in the professional mode of play...have we done the game a great disservice if all of these children will have to be retrained. Hypothetically it is more difficult to transition to more subdued grips toward the Eastern than the other way around.

Mats last week confirmed to me and the audience that the court will incrementally be speeded up. Incrementally because doing all at once would play havoc on the current professional game and expose it for what it is. The game has been contrived based on television ratings and it will continue to be so. When the ITF abandoned the traditional game of tennis and infiltrated the game with oversized and composite materials from the standard sized wood racquet it found itself faced with another problem.

The game had become to fast and too slick. Points were entirely too quick and the game was losing its entertainment value so the powers that be did the exact opposite and they deliberately slowed the game down. This massive engineering project took the game out of the hands of Roger Federer and placed it directly into the greedy hands of the newcomers such as Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. They essentially fossilized entire facets of the game of tennis when they took the initiative and slowed the bounce and raised the height of the bounce. This is where the antique discussion of Jack Kramer demonstrates that old wisdom is still relevant.

In his discussion...the same observations that he makes about the grips illustrate that the results at the 2014 Australian were very important. Just by speeding up the courts only incrementally and using slightly quicker balls the play was rather dramatically altered. It looked quite amateurish the way that the modern players were not able to adapt to the conditions with a professionalism that existed in the past. With this simple discussion about grips...we can see that by altering the speed and height of the bounce that the tennis world would be turned upside down.

Current coaching paradigms might just find themselves to be lacking. As Kramer discusses...players playing with western grips will have a more difficult time making the adjustment from the backcourt to the net. They will also have problems with the backhand. This was a dandy of a video. It is old enough to be thought of an antique in some circles. But to a true student of the game the same truths hold constant. It is a fundamental question. This is where tennis coaches will have to be vigilant in the future as it will become increasingly more difficult to discern between what is fundamentally correct or a fad of current conditions.

Rick Macci is making a nice show of the current fad of the ATP forehand but will it hold up to faster and lower bouncing balls? It's a valid question and one worthy of serious discussion. I believe that tennis should have done some more serious soul searching before they opened up the game for such radical changes through equipment and court conditions. Tennis for many years remained essentially an amateur sport and you can see what has happened once the big money gets involved. The sport was corrupted. It begins to resemble Big Time Wrestling.

So this is an interesting video. It's implications on the sport are multi layered and only a true student of the game is able to recognize and understand just what it is that has happened and what the implications are for the future. I really wonder what Jack Kramer would answer to some of the questions that I would like to pose to him about grips, equipment, court conditions, professionalism and the like. I liked his honest and forthright posture that he took in his discussion of the grips of tennis way back when. I wonder if he could be so honest and forthright about the results of the engineering.

Do you see that racquet that he has in the video? That is a Jack Kramer Autograph wood racquet. Any idea how many players used that racquet or racquets just like it through the years? But it's interesting...at least from a historical, ethical and theoretical point of view.

Thank you all...for your patience. Your courtesy and your acknowledgement of tennis etiquette is appreciated. At least that still exists...even if it is only a figment in the imagination of don_budge. I don't begrudge you the future. You can have it...and everything in it. Including all of the wonderful technology. It will be so warm and cozy...until just before the hammer falls, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

[don_budge]

Jack Kramer...Rick Macci...2014 Space Tennis Odyssey. The Hammer to Fall.

When Jack Kramer is discussing the Western grip he mentions that "back in the old days of tennis the balls used to bounce very, very high...particularly on the concrete courts out in California. So people developed this kind of a grip...to handle high balls. The hand was directly under the handle of the racquet. It is good for high balls but if you move to a situation where you have to hit low balls as well...really this grip doesn’t work. You also have a problem with the backhand".

When you take this statement by Jack Kramer into context with the modern game of tennis it sounds eerily familiar. Doesn't it? High bounce...hand under the racquet. A grip good for high balls..."but if you move to a situation where you have to hit low balls as well...really this grip doesn't work".

Remember some of those awkward moments at the 2014 Australian Open. We had our very own DougEng on the scene. He noticed it. "I have never seen so many mishits and balls sent into orbit". ATP forehands trying to time slightly lower and faster paced balls. Timing is everything and the logistics for the Western grip and the ATP forehand just may not be the proper or most suitable combination for quicker surfaces. All court games...as it is.

Yes, I noticed the court surface, quicker balls and heat since I was there and watched many matches. It amounted to many short rallies and matches as players had an abnormal number of short points and mishits (seen some balls go over the fences into the next court). I have never seen so many mishits and balls sent into orbit. Not the best quality tennis for what the players were capable of. It was easier the last few days with cooler weather and remaining players finally getting used to the speed.

Which brings me to Rick Macci and his pimping of the ATP forehand. I say that with all due respect by the way...only tongue in cheek. I like Rick. Slick Rick. I knew a pimp in Detroit by that name. Not a real pimp...just this slick black dude that we used to run into when we were hanging out playing ball. I like Rick's schtick. I also understand the reason he is hawking this type of forehand. Because the conditions are favorable to it. But my question has always been about the engineering of the game and will a particular technique hold true under different conditions.

Jack Kramer leads me to believe that he is postulating that it may not. With the "flipping" of strong gripped forehands on lower and faster balls, it may just have a disastrous effect on this technique if and should the game of tennis be recalibrated at the whim of the television audience vis a vis...the lovely and just, not to mention honorable ITF.

I know that some are going hmphh to themselves saying...there goes that infernal don_budge theorizing again. I admit that it's speculation...based on my experience. Based on my research as some like to say. But then again I am only a Metaphysical Engineer. Did you get that one...Metaphysical Engineer? Well it doesn't hurt to stay one step ahead of the herd you know. You don't want to get caught in the stampede.

Remember when I was asking Rick Macci about the Continental gripped game and why wasn't it feasible any longer? I dared to ask. That was right around the time that I was writing about the John McEnroe Continental grip based game...I played the continental game myself at the time. "Being John McEnroe"...like "Being John Malkovich". Perhaps some years from now it won't appear to be such a stupid question afterall. Interesting comments by the way from Jack Kramer about the Continental grips.

There probably are a couple guys here on this forum or elsewhere that "have forgotten more tennis than I will ever know"...but I wonder. Theoretically speaking...of course. Would you believe that I am only trying to help?

Rick Macci is making a nice show of the current fad of the ATP forehand but will it hold up to faster and lower bouncing balls? It's a valid question and one worthy of serious discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

Which brings me to this video clip from John's 2014 Space Tennis Odyssey. It's a rather disconcerting shot to me. The whole thing seems to be so perfect. Is there such a thing as too perfect. The ball impacting the racquet right on the screws...struck just below shoulder high at impact. I would like to see a hundred shots just like it...just to see where players impact on a consistent basis. I would like to see shots of lesser players too...I am assuming that this is Novak Djokovic who is arguably the best tennis player on the planet.

I would love to see Novak Djokovic swinging a Dunlop Maxply Fort and see the video results...just for the hell of it. Just for the Bloody Fun of It. Know what I mean? I would like to see a hundred shots just like this on a slick grass court at Wimbledon. I haven't read the article. I admit. I can appreciate the wonderful technology too...don't get me wrong. Let alone how much it cost. Important factors no doubt.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2591

The beauty is in the speculation about the possible permutations and combinations of thoughts that the thing provokes. I have questions...always questions. A skeptic at heart. My own dear Mother told me not to believe everything that I hear and only half of what I see. See where I get it from. Then there's my father. The math professor. The ex-professional baseball player. Hammerin' Hank. Perhaps you noticed my fixation on the hammer lately.

I don't trust the herd...they always seem to be headed for the cliff. I am more of a pack kind of guy...as in wolves. Alpha male. Lone wolf. don_quixote.

[bottle]

yAH, but why did that dumb-ass Jack Kramer leave out Australian grip, the one between continental and eastern forehand? And did he deny begetting Lindsay Davenport on a davenport?

[bottle]

Lindsay Davenport looks like Jack Kramer. That is what I am saying.

[10splayer]

[QUOTE=don_budge;25869]When you take this statement by Jack Kramer into context with the modern game of tennis it sounds eerily familiar. Doesn't it? High bounce...hand under the racquet. A grip good for high balls..."but if you move to a situation where you have to hit low balls as well...really this grip doesn't work".

Remember some of those awkward moments at the 2014 Australian Open. We had our very own DougEng on the scene. He noticed it. "I have never seen so many mishits and balls sent into orbit". ATP forehands trying to time slightly lower and faster paced balls. Timing is everything and the logistics for the Western grip and the ATP forehand just may not be the proper or most suitable combination for quicker surfaces. All court games...as it is.


Great post, great questions....and I certainly don't have all the answers, but, as usual, a couple thoughts.

1)With the exception of Djoker and Nadal,(they're close to being under the handle) I just don't think there are many players using a "western" grip. The vast majority are in the range of strong eastern to SW. Not sure, but think this is about right. Yandell's the one to comment on this.

2)I'm actually in agreement with many here, in that, it would be nice to see some serve and volley/all court games evolve over the next five years. I'm sure speeding up the court would help. But in my mind, the strings have played a big part in destroying the ability to come in. (except to clean up a point). When players have access to that kind of spin rate, the ease in which they can dip the ball, AND create ridiculous angles, makes it so difficult on the volleyer. It would appear to be out of whack in terms of fairness.


3)With respect to the "Macci", more appropriately, the Gordon model...I'm convinced it's here to stay. It provides more racquet head speed, AND as importantly, a shorter, more linear swing line. Perfect for the fast pace of today's game. Check out this video, as I think he does a pretty good job of explaining...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WFvuMs8zo&list=UUeRffn-HPHx-l2WeG7xpAVA&feature=share&index=4

One of the reasons, I've been so adamant in my disagreement with Worldsbesttenniscoach, is his insistence on a "backward emphasis" utilized by Fed and the boys. It ain't so. In fact, it's just the opposite. They couldn't possibly keep the racquet more "in front of them" In the video, it's pretty easy to see how much shorter and more direct the line to the ball is. That will stand the test of time regardless of whatever changes and or evolution is observed.

For the hell of it, look at Sharapova's forehand. This is a "backward emphasis swing. She really gets the hands and racquet "stuck" behind her. With the resultant swing line long and very curved.... Think this will become more and more obsolete in the coming years, as it really just gets down to restructuring the backswing.

http://youtu.be/t0lwD51UNek

Anyway, just a few of my armchair theories.

[stotty]

The net

I am still not convinced about he net thing. In the spells where Federer becomes rampant it looks doable. When he's aggressive, steals time, it looks possible. As a spectator I feel compelled to say "more"..."rush the opponent"..."catch him off balance"..."make him hit a low shot to pass you". It's got to be harder to pull off a low passing shot than rally at 5-5 in a set. Murray and Djokovic look really uncomfortable when Federer gets it right.

The ATP did some good stats on the recent Djokovic/Federer match. The stats determined when Djokovic hits less than half way between the service line and baseline he loses a good bulk of the points, when he maintains rallies hitting beyond that half way point, he wins most rallies.

[10splayer]

I am still not convinced about he net thing. In the spells where Federer becomes rampant it looks doable. When he's aggressive, steals time, it looks possible. As a spectator I feel compelled to say "more"..."rush the opponent"..."catch him off balance"..."make him hit a low shot to pass you". It's got to be harder to pull off a low passing shot than rally at 5-5 in a set. Murray and Djokovic look really uncomfortable when Federer gets it right.

The ATP did some good stats on the recent Djokovic/Federer match. The stats determined when Djokovic hits less than half way between the service line and baseline he loses a good bulk of the points, when he maintains rallies hitting beyond that half way point, he wins most rallies.

Yeah, you certainly may be correct. Part of it, is this generation just haven't honed those skills from an early age..Just don't know....