klacr Strokes

[don_budge]

LCD (Lowest Common Denominator)…until Forehand ='s Backhand

Backhand: I really enjoy hitting my backhand. I'm comfortable with it. I like to hit it from all areas and all angles. I have variety and it just feels natural.
Take a look...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEN_TEQs8zo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJv8MRLEmJs


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Love my backhand. I'd be willing to made those tiny adjustments but not looking to change entire stroke obviously. Not that you are insinuating that. In fact, I need to use my comfort level on my backhand to teach my forehand. I can hit my backhand stepping in, moving wide, moving back deep, really anywhere and be completely confident in it. When I miss my backhand I'm pretty damn shocked. But that's rare.

I will showcase my slice in the next set of videos I'll post in a few weeks. I do enjoy my slice equally the same as my drive.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

If you notice that in every single one of your backhand shots that your feet are placed in the very exact position every single time. This also insures that your hips and shoulders are going to be in the very same exact position every single time. By taking the racquet back with a turn of your body you have insured that the racquet will begin it's forward motion from the very same position every single time. All of this adds up synchronistically speaking to the inner clock that see the ball as it bounces and naturally starts you towards the ball with the same rhythm and sense of balance.

When I stop the video at any point in your backhand swing you are always in the same proportionate position. That is…the body is always lined up with all the parts where they should be when they should be. When I do the same thing with your forehand the body parts may be lined up somewhat differently every time. You are lined up perfectly one time but the shoulders are way out ahead of everything another. Get my drift?

The backhand swing is therefore repeatable and is less susceptible too losing the feeling when you are under stress or are hurried. With the proper placement of the feet the hips are turning to the ball to initiate the swing every time at the same pace. No wonder…again that it feels more natural. The power is effortless and seamless. The irony is that if you desire your forehand to feel the same way as your forehand you must be able to duplicate this rhythm every single time with your swing and it will start with proper placement of the feet and lower body as I discussed with you earlier.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_backhand/rogerfederer_bh_center/rogerfederer_bh_center.html?FedererBHCenterFront1.mov

Take a gander at frame #36 in Roger's backswing…the three lines of racquet, shoulders and feet. The vectors are all lined up…the ducks are all in a row. To go forwards. Swoosh! Shoulders slightly tilted and the front shoulder pointed at the ball. Front foot planted securely on the ground…heel too!

The one little tiny suggestion that I have is on your backswing…you might play around with the height of your hand at the top of the swing. See how Roger Federer's racquet is tipped up more than yours. He keeps his arm closer to his body on the backswing and therefore the hand doesn't get so high either. It looks to me as if your backswing may be a tad high…afterall you are so huge it probably isn't necessary to take it back so high. I would suggest the same thing on your forehand as well.

Take advantage of your size…by making yourself smaller. More irony. On second thought…why not point that right shoulder a little more downwards at the ball with your arm tucked a little closer to your body on your drive as the upwards rotation of the shoulders on the forward swing will give some additional rpm's…which won't hurt things either. A little tilting in the shoulders may just press those boats into the earth a bit more and prevent you from lifting off of that back foot. Right heel to the ground…Big Guy.

So we borrow from the side that feels the most natural to duplicate that feeling on the other side of the body. Fortunately for you that you hit the ball flat and hard. If you were hitting the ball loopy and spinny it is a much more difficult fix.

Love the backhand. Compared to your backhand your forehand is a bit of a slap. The backhand is such a dynamic "stroke"…a rhythmic unfurling of events. Borrow from it to bolster the forehand. Balance the equation. Even though I know that you don't like the math.

I love the conversation we are having. As you said…it is teacher and student working together. What teacher wouldn't kill to have a student like yourself…it would only be a question of who?

All of my comments about the backhand were made with the forehand in mind as well. I am always working both sides of the equation…like a mathematician. Borrow from the backhand and give to the forehand. It is the forehand to concentrate on…until the equation is balanced. On the other hand you are more receptive on the left side, so some fine-tuning can be accomplished at the same time. Keep raising the bar on the backhand side…being a perfectionist you won't quit until the equation is balanced on both sides and reduced to the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator).

Tilt the shoulders…to tilt the racquet.

Any questions…feel free to ask. A great conversationalist often is the one who asks the best question.

"In fact, I need to use my comfort level on my backhand to teach my forehand."

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

[klacr]

Thanks don_budge for comments and the helpful suggestions and advice. I appreciate your willingness to share your expertise. I have lots of information and finer points to go over and at the end of the day, it will come down to me going on court and doing it, again and again and again. I know my forehand has already improved with me seeing it on video, very eye opening on some things I was aware of, but not to the degree of severity that I expected. Don't know if you don't see.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[johnyandell]

Bobby,

Just like the casio footage on the mac now!

[johnyandell]

Kyle,

This is the most amazing phenomenon in the history of the forum. I will freely admit though until I could see some frame by frame I didn't look too closely.

Apologies if this has been repeated mentioned, but on the forehand backswing a lot the discussion about dropping the racket head etc would be obviated if you went slight to the outside with the face slightly closed. Yes--the Brian Gordon Rick Macci dog tap. From there I suspect the issue of the height of the face would disappear.

[GeoffWilliams]

Kyle,

This is the most amazing phenomenon in the history of the forum. I will freely admit though until I could see some frame by frame I didn't look too closely.

Apologies if this has been repeated mentioned, but on the forehand backswing a lot the discussion about dropping the racket head etc would be obviated if you went slight to the outside with the face slightly closed. Yes--the Brian Gordon Rick Macci dog tap. From there I suspect the issue of the height of the face would disappear.

There have never been so many views so fast on the forum, nor comments made. Must be a little confusing to say the least, who/what to do/listen to.

[johnyandell]

I only listen to myself.

[stotty]

Workshops

I think Kyle's thread has said a lot. It shows what posters are most interested in: shots to look at, how they can be improved. Collaboration is a powerful thing. Far more powerful than any individual on his own. It's perhaps less about fault finding (which many coaches are good at) and more to do with your tool bag...HOW can you fix certain problems in strokes...how, how, how.

We need "workshop" threads like this. Threads where coaches can put their students up for analysis and request the opinions of others. Maybe then go away and repost the student a few weeks later...maybe have some students as a continual work in progress.

[klacr]

Kyle,

This is the most amazing phenomenon in the history of the forum. I will freely admit though until I could see some frame by frame I didn't look too closely.

Apologies if this has been repeated mentioned, but on the forehand backswing a lot the discussion about dropping the racket head etc would be obviated if you went slight to the outside with the face slightly closed. Yes--the Brian Gordon Rick Macci dog tap. From there I suspect the issue of the height of the face would disappear.

John,

Kinda crazy huh? The power of the internet. More than happy to provide your forum and website with some talking points as your site has provided me with so much education and confidence.

Thanks for putting my strokes up again via quicktime. I couldn't do it from my end.
The dropping of the racquet head is the common issue amongst all the posters. After seeing my strokes, I certainly can't disagree. The proof is in the visual evidence we provided. Lots of good elements and some bad.

Glad you like it John.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

I think Kyle's thread has said a lot. It shows what posters are most interested in: shots to look at, how they can be improved. Collaboration is a powerful thing. Far more powerful than any individual on his own. It's perhaps less about fault finding (which many coaches are good at) and more to do with your tool bag...HOW can you fix certain problems in strokes...how, how, how.

We need "workshop" threads like this. Threads where coaches can put their students up for analysis and request the opinions of others. Maybe then go away and repost the student a few weeks later...maybe have some students as a continual work in progress.

I am the ultimate work in progress.

I didn't win Wimbledon at 17 and got double bageled by Nalbandian in juniors...
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...ve_and_volley/ ...

but after my game has improved in the last 15 years, I like my chances for a Wimbledon run .

This thread is the start of my resurgence. Don't call it a comeback. I never went anywhere. I just never got there...yet. My game and my strokes are a representation of each and every forum contributor who has aided in this thread. Cheers, This game's for you!!!

Love the comments and many questions are raised not on the cause or symptoms, but on how to apply it effectively. Glad you guys are enjoying this. Keep giving me your thoughts and opinions as so much more learning can be done. This is not only a great lesson for me, but for all of us. New ways to look at things that maybe our own eyes could not see or got complacent on. Glad to see our true teaching passion showcased on this forum. I don't shine if you don't shine.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[10splayer]

I think Kyle's thread has said a lot. It shows what posters are most interested in: shots to look at, how they can be improved. Collaboration is a powerful thing. Far more powerful than any individual on his own. It's perhaps less about fault finding (which many coaches are good at) and more to do with your tool bag...HOW can you fix certain problems in strokes...how, how, how.

We need "workshop" threads like this. Threads where coaches can put their students up for analysis and request the opinions of others. Maybe then go away and repost the student a few weeks later...maybe have some students as a continual work in progress.

Well said, this has been pretty fun. Again, kudos to Kyle...

[klacr]

Forehands

The more I watch this the more I see. Improvement will come. There is no other alternative. Turning this flaw into a world class weapon.

I had some success today on it. Issue is when I let that racquet tip drift towards the outside and get into a dog pat position and then create the flip, it feels a bit slappy/wristy. I recognize the explosiveness on it but not 100% confident of it's destination. My old stroke I always felt I knew where it was going. I could feel it in my hands and fingers. The ball was just on a string attached to my hand and I put it to a certain location on the court. This new way I don't have the control down yet. Rome wasn't built in a day. Far from it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Takes guts to have hope. That is what we players live for. Twist against the core more and get more sideways towards the net post.

[don_budge]

Hips in the Open Stance…Roger Federer vs. Kyle LaCroix

We had a bit of a comparison between you and our "Swiss Maestro" from a neutral stance. Let's have a look in your more open stance that you show preference to in your videos…although I suspect that you are leaning towards a more neutral setup now.

The same mechanics can be applied to the open stance as our hero below demonstrates from the forum archives.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterOpenStanceFront.mov

Good stuff from John. Really amazing all of the way around.

But here...take a look at Roger Federer in an open stance. The ball bounces on the court in click #41. He is playing this ball from an open stance but he places his foot in about a 15 degree angle to the ball.

Notice how much he has turned his hips as a result...5 more clicks and you see the advantage of turning the hips as now his shoulders are moving into action and rotating his entire torso and his chest is square “on the ball”. See how the shoulders have “cleared” and created the necessary space for the racquet arm to come swinging through.

Now 4 more clicks and his racquet arm has come swinging through but his chest has more or less reduced the turning process to the rate of the ball leaving his racquet. His chest is still on the ball but the racquet is swinging quite rapidly through the path of the ball.

Another 5 clicks and you can see that his head is still virtually in the same position that it was when he hit the ball. Not only keeping his eye on the ball through the hit but maintaining his balance after the hit...he is managing his energy perfectly on an off balance hit.

Once he has made contact with the ball the hips and the shoulders have both shot their load and they more or less rotate without any energy...just the after product of the momentum that was generated through the hit. Sort of like the wasted stages of a rocket as they just fall away after their use has been fulfilled.

Now let’s take a look at you.

The ball bounces in your first stroke right around frame #53 see the difference in the way that you use the position of your foot. Your foot by contrast is virtually perpendicular to the net. A full 90 degree turn to the ball. By splaying the foot outwards the hips are not engaged to do their work...your hips are already spent and your racquet is more or less left high and dry up in the air.

For the next 5 clicks or so you are transferring your weight to your front foot and see how your racquet has dropped. Just by transferring the weight without any hip movement whatsoever you have brought the racquet down some. But at the same time your shoulders have started to rotate out of sequence thereby nullifying some of their important energy transfer to and through your arm. Also since the shoulders are so square and not dipped ala Federer there will be no more lowering of the racquet arm or the racquet itself.

Another 5 clicks and you can see that you have arrived at your moment of truth...ball impact position but your shoulders are way past the point of creating any kind of swing for your arm and you are muscling the ball with mostly your arm. This sort of figures you big lug...and I say that most affectionately my good buddy. You can imagine.

After you hit there isn’t much to discuss as all of your forces have spent themselves out of sequence and you may or may not have nailed a very hard hit flat forehand. But all of this being said…keep in mind. It is best to build the forehand on a foundation on the flat ball. You will have options in the future…even a nice subtle slice for approach work.

Now all of this business of manipulating the hand and the wrist are of little consequence in the big picture. It’s all in your setup and how the sequence plays out. If done properly the racquet will get it’s impetus through the wrist which is the product of the feet...legs...hips...shoulder...arm...wrist...racq uet...chain of events.

The good news is that you have all of these qualities and aspects of “swing” mechanics in your backhand and it is really not such a difficult process of transferring them over to the other side. Just “copy and paste”. You will find that if you dip that shoulder just a bit on your drive backhand you will be engaging muscles that will help you in your effortless swing there as well as generating a bit more topspin.

I think too, Kyle, that since you are such a big guy that you can get away without taking racquet so high back in your backswing and concentrate on crouching a bit in your stance. Ass back…head forwards. These are positions that will encourage you to get that racquet head under the ball. Speaking of mean cats...you in the Federer crouch would remind me of the “King of the Jungle”.

[klacr]

King of The Jungle - The Huge Cat

don_budge,

Great eye for detail. A commonality amongst great teachers and students of the game.

I like to hit from all stances. When I have time I always like stepping in and taking a ball with a neutral or closed stance. Sometimes I do get into an open stance. Either way, I get what you are saying. The issue I'm having is to turn more or less with body or turn more or less with feet? Just how much? I feel my upper body and arm have turned far enough noticing my left arm pulled across parallel with the baseline. What should truly judge the length and severity of my turn and coil. How much is too much? Is there a range of correctness or spectrum for world class forehands that I'm outside of? Anyone?

I feel like I can hit my forehand well against anyone, but "well" is not acceptable in my world and my standards. I can do better. We all can agree on that.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZXReLNU1c



See how berd coils sideways, angled towards the right net post? All top forehands do the same thing: angle the chest towards the net post, no matter what the stance: open, closed, neutral. Or the type, III, II, I. Deeper knee bend, and large snap back? He has a larger coil backwards, inverting the frame towards the net, twisting against his own torso, and larger uncoil forwards. That's the shot you should be emulating. Compare it to your coil: no inversion, chest not coiled: straight on to the net, little snap back, no over the neck wrap a round on uncoil. "Shadow swing a couple of thousand times"

Listen to this guy!